Sportsman Class at Nationals

[hbj069]

Originally Posted by renoirbud

There are many valid points in this thread.

I really wish that the sportmen class would have been called the shafty class. It would have avoided alot of these issues.

An important point is, if the sportmen class is restricted to keep Comp drivers out, then who is going to organize the class?

Well our neck of the woods has a standing invite to all that wish to participate, just check out the upcoming Vanquish Turkey Crawl

[Eritex Inc.]

Originally Posted by hbj069

Bully = 689.00
XR10 =669.00

GC3A chassis 75.00
FX/R used 80.00
Hitec 5955 55.00
Shocks 40.00
35 t motor 35.00
axles used 60.00
total 345.00

Transmission $32.00
Crap Drive shafts $20.00 /real drive shafts $49.00
Used XR10 wheels to make it fair $45.00
Body $20.00

New total - $432.00
With good drive shafts - $461.00

All 3 still require radio, comp wheels and tires. Without a full blown cost analysis I highly doubt that I have broken $300 with my fully ready sportman rig. On the other hand I have over $700 in the XR10 and will have to spend more in the very near future to keep it from self destructing itself. I am positively sure that the Titanium rigs at nationals were over 2 grand each to build.

Your comparison is horrid at best, I fixed your numbers.

XR10 new - $260.00
2 lathe motors - $70.00
Hitec 5955 - $55.00
Used FXR x2 - $160.00
Novak The Dig - $16.00
9mm bearings - $24.00

Total - $585.00

Also, when you look at the new numbers for your Sportsman rig you still have used axles, crappy drive shafts, and junky trans outputs. If you step up to MIP drive shafts you need to add another $29.00 to the "cheaper" option. These numbers represent a 2.2 Pro rig that has front and rear dig and is capable of competing at regional if not national levels vs a dig-less rig that has all the downfalls that come with shaft drive. So, $124.00 is the REAL difference between a reliable Sportsman rig and a good 2.2 Pro rig.



One last thing, add a dig and the servo to the Sportsman rig, you are at the same price of the XR10


EDIT...

The 2.2 Pro rig is setup for a 4 channel radio. If you wanted, you could knock another $42.00 off that $124.00 difference if you went with a single MambaMax and a Punk dig. Now we have a $82.00 difference...

[switchstance]

After reading all this, I think you guys answered the question. Time and money, lack of judges and longer days at comps would rule out the sportmans class at a National.

think about it, all 100+ 2.2 pro/super and 1.9 class drivers getting back in line along with the sportman drivers to do it all over again. you go from 20+ drivers to 120+ drivers in one day. I think the sportman drivers would be bummed.

I thought the sportman class was an introduction class to competition crawling for local clubs. Plus if your that good of a driver, no one's stopping you from entering with the big boys.

Just my 2 cents.

[rmdesignworks]

As an electrician in Colorado,,,my trade was hit pretty hard like many others,,I wasnt as fortunate as others to get back to work quickly and this hurt me for the last year or better....provided my financial situation is better I plan on traveling to any event I can that welcome Sportsman drivers....Local...out of state...National Level...LCQ's.

Ive already been through all the arguments about me driving a Creeper based rig,,but My Creeper has a lot of Mods that many rigs dont or are different in one way or another and Id like the chance to compete against the best of the best in the Sportsman Class Rigs. I am asking all Venom drivers to do their best to attend as many events as possible and to be at Nationals even if there isnt a Sportsman Class. To make this all happen I am even considering a career change. And I dont know about the other Sportsman drivers but I am more than willing to help to set up and judge our own class. Whenever or wherever. Like I said before,,,it doesnt have to be a field of 50 drivers,four to five regions and the top two or three drivers from each region...10-15 drivers...handling their own class. I really dont want to have to put my dig back in to drive at Nationals,,it would just be extra weight. Unless I wanna just forego the weight and take the ridicule for running a Sportsman rig in Pro. I mean I already do locally. But,,,without the ridicule or label. The local guys are starting to step away from the Novice label for SPortsman drivers and their rigs...kudos to the ones who try.

[Fishmaxx]

Originally Posted by hbj069

I have had this discussion with several people over the last year and a half and there is not a clear, rational, reason not to allow anybody to drive a shaft truck. One of the most important things to consider is attendance, and as Biscuit stated "its not just a novice class", Its more like an economical approach to get more people crawling.

I seriously doubt Sportsman Class will be "ECONOMICAL" at the National Level. It will end up being a 2.2 Pro Shafty class plan and simple.



This is CRSMacgyver's Sportsman rig, and I have NO DOUBT the other drivers won't look similar. (Iknow mine would)

Originally Posted by CRSMacgyver

T1E has been working on a new Moonbuggy chassis for the shafty lovers. I took a few minutes today to practice and get a couple pics. I ran it in our Anderson R/C Sportsman Series event this past Sunday and it worked amazingly well with no tuning time. Wish I hadn't stripped a spur gear in the finals.... I will get a few more pics uploaded and posted tonight.

Specs:
T1E Moonbuggy Shafty prototype chassis (new 4 link mounts will be included with production chassis which are not shown here)
Crawler Innovations 5.5" Double D Foams in Sedonas
VP DH front rims
VP SLW rears
Axial axles with upgraded lockers, HD front gears, underdrive rear gears, CVDs, Al C's and VP zero ackerman high steer knuckles
Axial Transmission with Robinson Racing Gears (may be changing soon.....)
MIP shafts
Futaba 9157
Holmes Hobbies Torquemaster ESC
Holmes Hobbies 35T Pro handwound Motor
Thunderpower 850 45C batteries
Custom Fishskins Moonbuggy Wrap
Futaba Rx controlled by my 4PK
Custom 5/16" delrin lower links and AL uppers - all revo ends
Duratrax 3.5" shocks with gold springs front and white or silvers in the rear








THANKS TO T1E for continuing to design great new products!

If its ran at Nationals it will be just a 4th class, but it won't be an economical class. I not trying to burst any ones bubble its just the way that it will be, so lets stop trying to sell this class as something it NEVER will be....ECONOMICAL

[rmdesignworks]

The numbers I come up with based on my rig is right around $850.00,,rig,radio,,everything to run the rig.

Most of the expenses are the same except for an extra motor, extra esc, and $151 more for the base kit. about $1050.00.

Not a huge difference,,for whatever the reason to know. Its kind of beside the point.

[Eritex Inc.]

Originally Posted by rmdesignworks

The numbers I come up with based on my rig is right around $850.00,,rig,radio,,everything to run the rig.

Most of the expenses are the same except for an extra motor, extra esc, and $151 more for the base kit. about $1050.00.

Not a huge difference,,for whatever the reason to know. Its kind of beside the point.

No, I think it is EXACTLY the point. Every time I get into a discussion about the Sportsman class it ends up with someone saying....

"It is a more economical class" which has been proven wrong.

[Fishmaxx]

Originally Posted by Eritex Inc.

No, I think it is EXACTLY the point. Every time I get into a discussion about the Sportsman class it ends up with someone saying....

"It is a more economical class" which has been proven wrong.

Because some people got this idea in their head that it will be more affordable to recycle their junk.

The reality is those that want it for financial reasons more than likely won't go to Nationals any way because its to expensive

[SoCo Crawlgirl]

just from my point of veiw and from traveling to alot of out of state and nor cal/ so cal comps, there are only a few sportman/novice drivers. at awcc and awcc qualifiers almost all who ran sport got an invite because there were so few of them, they advanced all 20 sport drivers at the AWCC LCQ to make it a full class. most of the sport drivers that earned invites at the qualifiers for championship didn't even show up. at local comps you have 20+ pro's and you're lucky if you get more than 3-5 nov/sport. from the past 2 years of running a club i have noticed most sport drivers run sport for a season or for a comp or 2 then bump up. they want the dig or the MOA rig, they want to be part of the big boy crowd. so why have a novice class? the #'s don't support it to make it worth the time. if there are so many out there maybe someone should start their own "sportman/novice" nationals and prove us wrong and maybe they will then pick it up and make it part of the big show.

[switchstance]

Well said girl. 8 drivers was the most I've seen in our sportman class. and the top three have now graduated into the 2.2 pro class. Well said.

[rmdesignworks]

see again this thread takes a turn away from the point...I didnt bring up the Class because of economics,,Ive got as much into my Sportsman rig as others have in thier Pro rigs,,,what does the cost of the rig have to do with the class of the rig or the ability of the driver....?

[4xFord]

Originally Posted by Biscuit

I think some of the confusion/contreversy is coming from the fact that there are actually two different trains of thought on the class. Some people (including myself) view the "Sportsman class" as just a shafty / no dig class. But other folks are thinking of it as a "novice" class. The "Sportsman class" to me is classifying the truck type, but "Novice class" is classifying the drivers.
In my opinion there is a place for Sportsman Class (shafty/no dig) at Nationals.

Very well said! sportsman is a set of rules. Novice class is a beginners class. Totally different.

I still love shafty's and would fully support running a sportsman class at nats. There is no reason to have national rules for the class otherwise. If its a beginner/novice class than its up to clubs to set that up to help newbs get their feet wet.

[SVEN]

Ugh, I can't stand to see cost brought up in any hobby discussion. It is a mute point since we are talking about National level events. 'Economical' and 'Nationals' just don't mix.

The term 'Sportsman' to me says, entry level beginner. Shafty or Single motor 2.2, seems more appropriate if everyone wants to play.

Like Fish said, if it were a Nationals class it would be the Pro Shafty class, because beginners are not going to be at Nationals to begin with (at least not in quantity).

I will run whatever class is available, but I really don't think there is time in the day for a 4th. And don't even think about cutting Supers!

[rmdesignworks]

So the base point that comes across more than any other is time, resources to make it happen,,ok fine Im good with that.

Money terms and labeling people doesnt do anything for the sport. I do however have a lot of fun watching Pro Drivers running in digless comps from time to time...its a rip.

[Eritex Inc.]

I, from the git go, have been against the "Sportsman" class name. I always thought it should have been called the "Novice" or "Beginners" class because of discussions like this. Everyone assigns their own meaning to the word "Sportsman" and it causes nothing but headaches and problems for those who are trying to setup and run comps, points series, rule makers, and those who are trying to find their niche in the hobby. I think the USRCCA should re-name the class Beginners, Novice, etc in order to define the class once and for all.

[SVEN]

Originally Posted by Eritex Inc.

I think the USRCCA should re-name the class Beginners, Novice, etc in order to define the class once and for all.

Issue with that is there are a lot of Pro drivers that are interested in this class because of the added challenge/fun of no dig.

[4xFord]

Originally Posted by renoirbud

I think killing the 1.9 and replacing it with 2.2 shafty, is a great idea.

Thanks I would love to get rid of the LOSI class for a class that allows a bit more creativity.

[4xFord]

Originally Posted by Fishmaxx

Whats the purpose of Sportsman Class at Nationals?

Same reason as all of the other classes. Fun to drive and compete in. I would love to see sportsman come into its own. Everyone that says "Oh we already have that class its called 1.9" is full of crap. 1.9 is a LOSI only class and a PITA to get them to be durable performers. Sportsman would open the doors to a ton of creative builds and tons of solid platforms with aftermarket support to choose from. (Wheely king axles, AX10 axles, Venom axles, etc.)

Originally Posted by Fishmaxx

Can all drivers drive both 2.2 Pro and Sportsman?
(Yes or No and why?)

Hell yes. Because they would be two completely different classes with different courses.

[mark reel]

[QUOTE=4xFord;2718519]Same reason as all of the other classes. Fun to drive and compete in. I would love to see sportsman come into its own. Everyone that says "Oh we already have that class its called 1.9" is full of crap. 1.9 is a LOSI only class and a PITA to get them to be durable performers.

what problems do you have with the 1.9 losi, once you put the metal lockers in, it holds up great, drove mine for a season and a half with out even rebuilding anything but the shocks, and two rod ends, motor included.

[mark reel]

Originally Posted by 4xFord

Thanks I would love to get rid of the LOSI class for a class that allows a bit more creativity.

what cant you be creative about with the 1.9,
there are chassis for sale, or you can make your own,
make your own mods to 4 link, mod the stearing to under the servo,
mod the nuckles to 0 deg. acromen. you can run sprung, droop, internal and external spring, the 1.9 is as creative as the ax10 days, you just have to want to do it.

and the 1.9 can crawl some amazing things once you set it up, its not a pull it out of the box and its perfect but what is ?
speaking of the old 1.9 the pro 1.9 is pretty good out of the box with some tunning