WarTrader's 2011 V1 Berg

[Kraqa]

I've been runnign bent arms with WAY more bend that those for years no issues and i drive the shit outa my rig.

Originally Posted by WarTrader

Let me start all this off by thanking "XIRTIC" the design of these links are all his. He has been making and selling this style of links for some time. Now xirtic guided me in how to make these links, the thing is we are not sure how they will hold up as he has never put such sharp bends in them. I'm going to be testing these and if they hold up he may be offering them up as a future option through him.

After a lot of looking around and weighing the different options I like these the best. Aluminum is stong, good wieght, and decent prices, but I cannot stand how after a little use they get sticky and don't like to slide. I like titanium for obvious reasons strength, weight, and bling. Titaniums big draw back for me is price $80.00 for links just isn't in this builds budget at the moment. These links are reasonably priced, have a reasonable weight, and slide well. IMO they are a great middle of the road! They aren't the "best" in every catagory but the drawbacks are more minimal than the others. The other type is the CNC'd flat links like amny people run the thing I like about these with being round the have a smaller contact patch.










Now to cover everybodys comments and questions.

If you just slide some delrin tube over any old allthread like you would with brake line, your not going to end up with the same strength as these.

I thought about using titanium allthread as well but remembering back to a painful titanium failure induced mountain bike incident in my youth, I'm not very confident that will hold up well. Titanium is crazy strong for its weight but has one big drawback. It likes to fail at a cut notch aka a thread. Now I know what your going to say and yes I know you can thread titanium but you have to do it in an area where the stress is from stretching and compression. If you bend titanium at that notch(thread) you are going to creat a point of failure. Yeah I know the lunsfords everybody seems to be using are holding up well, but if you notice nobody is bending the threaded ends!

Next I bent these using a tubing bender (no not the crappy harbor freight variety). These links bend very nicely, the problem comes in when you realize you have to make another one that matches exactly. It takes a lot of time measuring, and sweat equity.

I've thought about using some aluminum jacketed upper links to cut down on weight but I like how the upper links look LOL. yeah I know..

Mnster I was looking foreward to meeting you at The Collosal Fossil Challenge, and I'm quite sure we will bump into one another at a comp soon and I look foreward to it!

Soo to sum up my long winded rant if your looking for links like these going foreward Message xirtic I know he would love to make you up a set. He's a great guy and fantastic to deal with. If however your looking for a bendy set your gonna have to wait to see if these hold up.

[WarTrader]

Originally Posted by Kraqa

I've been runnign bent arms with WAY more bend that those for years no issues and i drive the shit outa my rig.

Good to know thanks for the input!!!

[Kraqa]

i liek the sweeping bends too makes for a nice smooth surface for sliding off.

i think your gonne be supper happy with it.

[WarTrader]

Well this morning I decided that I needed to clean up my electrics as I'm reusing what was in it. I'll be running 2 Mamba Micro Pro's, a Castle BEC and a Hitec 7950. I use a Futaba 4PK soo I'm not stuck with a dig unit.

Well Since I hate the switches on the esc they got cut I soldered the wire leads together and tucked them inside the case. While the case was open I wen ahead and removed the control wire for brushless motors. I then shortened the leads to the reciever on the esc and the bec. I also opened the Reciever case and tucked the antena wire inside to get it out of the way.




I got everything slid into the chassis and plugged everything in and went for a maiden run. I'm really impressed so far I really need to do something with the shocks. I'm just not happy with them I may have to throw in some big bores but time will tell. I may have to mess with the geometry a little bit on the front let lower links aren't quite right for me. I want to try to get a little more ground clearance and try that before I go and make more.

[4xFord]

Nice job on the rig! I like the links that is a killer idea that I need to play with one day.

What is bothering you with your shocks? Are the rears binding? What is your center clearance?

[WarTrader]

Originally Posted by 4xFord

Nice job on the rig! I like the links that is a killer idea that I need to play with one day.

What is bothering you with your shocks? Are the rears binding? What is your center clearance?

Thank You. Making the links is a PIA LOL. Nothing is binding they just don't feel "right". I've not measured the the clearance.

The front end will be getting pulled out of it sometime after the the holiday. I'm not really trying to dial it in yet I just wanted to get things mocked up and take it for a little spin. I'm really curious to see how well the chassis geometry is going to work!

While this is my winter project I'm tyring to get it off the workbench for a few days I've got a little side project I wanna get done that will only take a few hours. I need to get my MRC tuned up-I love my BERG but it just isn't as much fun crawling the living room as the MRC and soon the snow will be here soo..

[4xFord]

Right on. Well maybe the big bores will solve the problem.

[WarTrader]

Originally Posted by 4xFord

Right on. Well maybe the big bores will solve the problem.

I think the big thing with the shocks is that I used the springs I would use for my moonbuggy chassis and with this chassis the shocks are laid down much more. With them being laid down soo much I should have gone with a stiffer spring rate. I did go with slightly heavier oil to try and compensate but I think I should have bumped both up right off the bat.

[krawlfreak]

Originally Posted by WarTrader

I think the big thing with the shocks is I used the springs I would use for my moonbuggy chassis and with this chassis the shocks are laid down much more. With them being laid down soo much I should have gone with a stiffer spring rate. I did go with slightly heavier oil to try and compensate but I think I should have bumped both up right off the bat.

i dont think a heavier spring rate is the answer.

the shocks are laid down to further reduce the amount of rate of the most commonly available and used springs (losi gold and grey)

also i notice there is no limiting on the shocks... i would recommend to start with an external limit on the losi shocks at about 3/8" front and 1/2" on the rear using gold springs if you are running the battery in the chassis.

i know it comes down to personal preference and driving style but you will get the best performance from the truck with a limited amount of articulation.

another thing i noticed is the placement of the chassis as far as forward bias in relation to the wheelbase.

it looks to me from the pics that the front of the battery skid is about 1/2 inch back from the front motor. if you decide on making new links try to get in within a 1/4" from the motor. this will give you some forward bias in the truck and give you more tuning options from the front shocks.

the upper links should not be spaced at the axle and try to run the inner most holes on the chassis for the upper links. this will make the car settle better in general

[WarTrader]

Originally Posted by krawlfreak

i dont think a heavier spring rate is the answer.

the shocks are laid down to further reduce the amount of rate of the most commonly available and used springs (losi gold and grey)

also i notice there is no limiting on the shocks... i would recommend to start with an external limit on the losi shocks at about 3/8" front and 1/2" on the rear using gold springs if you are running the battery in the chassis.

i know it comes down to personal preference and driving style but you will get the best performance from the truck with a limited amount of articulation.i

another thing i noticed is the placement of the chassis as far as forward bias in relation to the wheelbase.

it looks to me from the pics that the front of the battery skid is about 1/2 inch back from the front motor. if you decide on making new links try to get in within a 1/4" from the motor. this will give you some forward bias in the truck and give you more tuning options from the front shocks.

the upper links should not be spaced at the axle and try to run the inner most holes on the chassis for the upper links. this will make the car settle better in general

Thanks for the great incite. The shocks are limited internally. I've been doing that that way for years. I found from nitro racing along time ago using fuel tubing or whatever externally allows the crud that builds up on the shock to get pushed up into the seals. Limiting internally helps to prevent that. I'm thinking of going a little heavier on the shock as I went with 45 weight oil front and rear. I'm setting this up just a little stiff as one of my clubs normal comp spots is riprap and success can be weighed by just not getting sucked into holes. I based this off my set up i used in my other berg that seemed to work well practicing. The unknown here is that this rig is going to be far lighter. I'm just trying to get a starting point and work from there.

I'm not happy with the front lower links at all I'm probably going to move the bend back and i will try lengthening them. The front is mostly mock up as the axle is getting pulled shortly to change the steering set up and add some clover custom tubes. I just really wanted to drive it. Right now some of the handeling issues come down to the fact that the front axle in its current configuration is a anchor compared to the rear axles weight.

I rreally do appreciate your wise incite and as this build develops more I will try your advise thanks again!

[JeremyH]

Originally Posted by WarTrader

Limiting internally helps to prevent that

Are you limiting them internally with the tubing around the shaft (below the piston) or above the piston? One way limits droop, the other limits uptravel (like external limiters do)....

[WarTrader]

Originally Posted by JeremyH

Are you limiting them internally with the tubing around the shaft (below the piston) or above the piston? One way limits droop, the other limits uptravel (like external limiters do)....

In this case it is above the piston. It limits shock compression. I've also limited under the piston 1/8. As i stated I'm using a little different set up at this point for the conditions i run in. I should add that just the front shocks are limited for extension.

Right now this set up is just a experiment based on my heavier rig running a moonbuggy chassis. I figured i needed to start some where and I'm familiar with the basis of this shock package and how it has performed fior me in the past.

I just need to get the front axle done and rework the front geometry. Then i will start dialing in the shocks. Im probably going to go with some big bores at any rate so.. driving time is the only thing that will tell where this ends up.

My driving style/tastes are a little different than a lot of people. I know it took me four tries to get a set up that made me happy with my V2. I'm sure this rig will be no different. I'm really looking foreward to learning the little quirks of this new chassis. I'm loving the look and overall feel of it.

I really do appreciate feedback on others experiences, it does help to focus in on a comfortable set up much quicker. Thanks again.

[WarTrader]

I'm getting really excited about where this build is headig and with the info I've gotten the last few days the end is comming closer much quicker that I'd expected.

I know I'm going to be making some rather big unexpected changes. I'm not sure what chassis this rig might end up being hung on. I like the look of the Ytown V4 and I think it has a really good future. I know T1E is bringing out a couple new versions of the Rockshow based around XR-10 axles.

The change in the T1E chassis is mainly because of a higher front upper link attachment. I'm considering using one of these chassis because I would like to move my battery off the chassis and mount it on it's side in a tray attached to the rear of the front axle and I feel these chassis will give me all the clearance I'd like.

I'm not throwing the V4 out just yet! I think what I'm going to end up doing here is giving all the chassis a shot over the winter and find out which lends them the best to my driving style and setup.

One thing that will be a factor in this decision also will be chassis weight! I've had abit of a financial windfall lately and I'm thinking of picking up the two(?) different cabs that T1E will offer and do a little review of all the different chassis set ups and get in some driving over the winter to try and determine which I like the best.

What very well may end up happening here is my two favorite will end up on my V1 and V2 bergs and the third will end up in the for sale section!

I hope you all have a good holiday!

[Cookie Monster Joe]

Can't wait to see a done pic.

[4xFord]

Originally Posted by WarTrader

The change in the chassis is mainly because of a higher front upper link attachment. I'm considering using one of these chassis because I would like to move my battery off the chassis and mount it on it's side in a tray attached to the rear of the front axle and I feel these chassis will give me all the clearance I'd like.

There are no clearance issues on a V4 with that style battery mount at all.

[WarTrader]

Originally Posted by Cookie Monster Joe

Can't wait to see a done pic.

Me either LOL!

Originally Posted by 4xFord

There are no clearance issues on a V4 with that style battery mount at all.

Thanks for the info I really appreciate it. The only thing I'm worried about and appears will be tight for me is in the way I prefer to run my front end. I like to run my front end clocked with bent front links. I cannot tell from your pic but you don't appear to run either??

I know that a lot of people argue that you don't need to run your front axle that way with bent links but the one thing I really enjoy is climbing! For me the lines, and obsticles I seem to be drawn to, a good break over can make or break you.

I like to comp and do whenever I can make time, a lot of my driving time is spent "Bashing" hitting up new different areas and just plain driving. Occasionally I even drop a few markers if I need to make things a little more challenging.

Please understand I'm not dismissing this chassis in any way, it appears to be a really great chassis! This build for me is something of a dream build! I've always wanted to build a no limits 1:1 crawler but where I live, money, and time have always prevented me. I'm going to take this winter and try all kinds of different things with this build, links, chassis, wheels, foams, tires, and shocks! The only thing I know for sure that I'm truly settled on are the axles and my parts choices and setups there. (and I only finalized those a few days ago ).

There are two things other than my family that keeps the stresses in my life from eating me alive. Wrenching on and driving my crawlers! There are days I'm really not sure which is my favorite. I have all winter to wrench and play, after christmas my work slows substantially and I'm usually looking for things to keep me from finding trouble LOL.

[Cookie Monster Joe]

Any updates? New pics?

[WarTrader]

Originally Posted by Cookie Monster Joe

Any updates? New pics?

Well right now only pics I could give are of some parts sitting on my workbench!

I've not abandond this build life just kinda bit me in the hind quarters and I've been sitting tight waiting on some parts.

As I'm writing this though good things are starting to happen! Mailman just dropped off a brand new edition of T1E's Moonbuggy chassis (Thanks Mike), 66bronco from Clover Custom Design just shot me a pm telling me my front axle should be heading back to me Sat. (Thanks Bryan), and Nova's Ark will be starting a suprise project for me in the next week or two (thanks Eddie). Soo things are comming together I just gotta be patient for a little bit!

[Cookie Monster Joe]

All good to hear, was hoping you did not forget about us out here wanting to see what was up is all, have a good holiday season.

[WarTrader]

Bryan at Clover Custom Design got my front axle back to me after he did a fantastic job on a BTA steering servo. The craftsmanship that is in this design and the steering job are off the chart! I cannot wait to get this mounted up. I've got a couple things I still want to do to this axle but here it is!







Now on to the next box! T1E sent me some early Christmas Joy! I know this is designed for the XR10 with what I have in mind for this build I think the changes will really fall into place!





I still have a few parts I'm waiting for but as soon as the holidays are over and work calms down I'll be getting this thing up and running! Told you I didn't forget about this build