axial coming out with a MOA comp crawler anytime soon?

[T3rry]

Originally Posted by Harley

They didn't design the wheel. They licensed the technology to them for the weight system.

regardless of how deep it was, there was clearly some behind the scenes goin on between the 2, and really if vanquish could reverse engineer, develop and release their upgrade parts so quick, why couldn't axial? a company which at the time was, and probably still is, 1000x bigger and more financially backed than vanquish. Axial should have had their upgrade parts on the shelf before the truck was, IIRC they did not have alu upgrades for months after vanquish did.


I just think axial dug their own grave on this one, and now us, the consumer, is paying the price.

[Calderwood]

Originally Posted by T3rry

regardless of how deep it was, there was clearly some behind the scenes goin on between the 2, and really if vanquish could reverse engineer, develop and release their upgrade parts so quick, why couldn't axial? a company which at the time was, and probably still is, 1000x bigger and more financially backed than vanquish. Axial should have had their upgrade parts on the shelf before the truck was, IIRC they did not have alu upgrades for months after vanquish did.


I just think axial dug their own grave on this one, and now us, the consumer, is paying the price.

Maybe because they're 1000x bigger...

[JeremyH]

Originally Posted by T3rry

I just think axial dug their own grave on this one, and now us, the consumer, is paying the price.

Neither of these companies cares about the consumer anymore. Both are bigger than that now....they only care about the $$.

Both of these companies have now abandoned the comp crawling scene, yet both seem to be trying to force their own separate agenda back into the comp scene, without showing us any support.

[off road again]

Was gonna get an xr10 to get into the comp scene but without a good kit, and no other moa's with good part support from my lhs i just got another scaler.

I think if it was brought back as a ready to crawl it would make moa's popular.

[jollyjeeper]

It's my understanding Axial as a company was sold. I called technical supporta few months ago and was told they didn't know the answer to my question because "they" recently aquired the company and
weren't familiar with legacy models. I'm sure some of you guys know
more about that than i do.

[Harley]

Originally Posted by jollyjeeper

It's my understanding Axial as a company was sold. I called technical supporta few months ago and was told they didn't know the answer to my question because "they" recently aquired the company and
weren't familiar with legacy models. I'm sure some of you guys know
more about that than i do.

Hobbico acquired Axial awhile back.

[jollyjeeper]

Originally Posted by Harley

Hobbico acquired Axial awhile back.

Just out of curiosity, was this before or after they discontinued the XR and AX? I'm bumming that I missed out on the whole XR fad. I got out of the hobby for a couple of years, but never again! I've been to the depths of RCC and it looks like it was quite a ride to be involved in. Hope I didn't miss out on the last "good o'l days". I know your into the scale stuff, so no offence, but I'll wait till I'm old and go scale instead of model trains.

[T3rry]

Originally Posted by jollyjeeper

Just out of curiosity, was this before or after they discontinued the XR and AX? I'm bumming that I missed out on the whole XR fad. I got out of the hobby for a couple of years, but never again! I've been to the depths of RCC and it looks like it was quite a ride to be involved in. Hope I didn't miss out on the last "good o'l days". I know your into the scale stuff, so no offence, but I'll wait till I'm old and go scale instead of model trains.

acquisition took place january 2012, xr10 disco happened oct 2012 ax10 scorp disco happened around the same time

[alexchen86]

Yup but I doubt you need to stock up on XR10/AX10 axle parts. Not that the endless amount of aftermarket suppliers out there will stop to continue producing aluminum/steel/titanium/delrin/plastics for Axial's loyal fan base.

I just hope with their new acquisition by Hobbico that this leads to greater and better things instead of overpriced RTR "kits" which I am beginning to see with the release of the Poison Wraith and the SCX10 Rubicon.

But I guess this is a positive step business wise for Hobbico as it will bring more people and profit into their company. I just hope that the crawling side of the r/c hobby won't turn into a madhouse like Traxxas stuff lol.

[cytogen]

Dunno if this was mentioned, but out of the xr10 kit, how much if it stayed stock, on average? The common thing I saw was axles. Guys swapped everything else out. So why bother buying a whole
kit for just the axles?

IMO, I think this was why the kit declined and discontinued.

It's unfortunately for the new moa guys like me as I was looking forward to building one, but can't get one now.

[Sheepdawg23wm]

The entire disco of the xr10 solely revolves around lack of sales. Axial can spend x amount of dollars building xr10 kits that have about a 10% chance of selling or spend the exact same amount to build a wraith kit that stands to sell 90% of the time. I myself am an xr owner and love my truck and wish it were still available, but the bottom line is Axial, like any other business, is in business to make money. When red figures every quarter after the first 1 or 2 quarters of release where continually showing up, Axial could no longer justify the cost of production for the kit and thus the plug was pulled. I myself dont understand why Traxxas and there hugh finacial backing doesnt take off with a rtr rock crawler since they built there entire empire on the rtr. I personally have a boat load of green in my xr to make it more dependable then anything else along with probably everyone else that comps xr's, but when I talk to new guys wanting to get into comping for the first time and they find out a decent, dependable, potentially winning xr can easily soar over 1500 bucks, they're like screw that. My idea to blow the comp scene back up would require Traxxas or axial to release a rtr crawler and start a new spec class like what happened with the slash. Basically, you comp the rtr totally stock and only allowed to tune shocks, links and foams. The biggest problem I see is guys know they have no chance of winning with a stock or stockish truck currently, but a spec class would cure that problem. Thats my 2 cents worth.

[JeremyH]

Originally Posted by Sheepdawg23wm

The biggest problem I see is guys know they have no chance of winning with a stock or stockish truck currently...

Based on what information?

2011 nats was won with a stock-ish XR10. Bender showed up to the WCS comp a few months ago and was in the top 10.

Why people continue to think that running a stock chassis will hold you back is beyond me.....practice is WAY MORE IMPORTANT than an aftermarket chassis.

[T3rry]

Originally Posted by JeremyH

Based on what information?

2011 nats was won with a stock-ish XR10. Bender showed up to the WCS comp a few months ago and was in the top 10.

Why people continue to think that running a stock chassis will hold you back is beyond me.....practice is WAY MORE IMPORTANT than an aftermarket chassis.

yepp, practice and tuning are #1, all the purdy stuff is not necessary, but does help offset lack of the aforementioned

[Grizzly4x4]

Originally Posted by rc dreemer

i am fairly new to the MOA scene (just finishing up a bully) due to prices of xr10's) but is the decline maybe because of the MOA "idea"? or is it the decline in use? i think i agree with the the previous post related to the sale figures (or lack of), but it seems that all MOA's have fallen off... just like my bully stuff & berg as mentioned. i first got in to the rc scene because of the scale world, so i too missed out on the whole xr10 craze (MOA scene). now i am intersted in the MOA's & just like my luck they are now not available. does any one think that the MOA scene will/could pickup if a "decent" product was available? i personnally think that the main reason was it was/is very expensive to have a MOA rc. ....

any thoughts???

MOA is not new, it's always been there. Before people figured out how to make a chassis to make a TLT competitive, 2.2 Clods were winning comps.

Originally Posted by JeremyH

You're fooling yourself if you think that scalers aren't going the exact same way as comp rigs did. If you read the rules, they are the exact same thing as comp rules. The main difference I see is that the comp rules dont have as many "well, I don't like the looks of that so let's not allow it" elitist attitudes of those writing the rules....

I truly belive that the everchanging comp setup and the complete loss of scale looks is what is causing the decline of comp crawling.

People build comp courses to challenge the "latest thing", 1 lb wheels, dig, low riders, high breakover rigs, ultra light rigs, etc, and make previous rigs obsolete. I've seen 'em all come and go over the years. Manufactureres don't want to spend money on a design that will be obsolete in the next couple years and people get tired of dumping money into a toy truck trying to feel competitive.

The lure for many coming into RC and for many who have been around is the scale appeal. When the "tuber" became obsolete in comp crawling I lost interest and many others have as well. You can pretend that scale looks don't matter all you want, and I will pretend that they do, but even if scale comps die out the scale rig never will.
That is why I will keep my "elitist attitude", learn from what I think hurt comp crawling, and do what I believe will benefit RC rockcrawling in the future.

[JeremyH]

Originally Posted by Grizzly4x4

People build comp courses to challenge the "latest thing"

I dont see that at all. I have seen first hand what happens when you build the same courses over and over again....people lose interest. People build new styles of courses to make things different and challenging.

The same thing is happening in scale.....

Originally Posted by Grizzly4x4

The lure for many coming into RC and for many who have been around is the scale appeal.

That might be the case for you, but it certainly isnt for everyone. People love competition. If they didnt, then there would be no comps with scalers......but there are.

Originally Posted by Grizzly4x4

...people get tired of dumping money into a toy truck trying to feel competitive.

Why does this keep getting repeated? Why do people think that money or objects makes you a good driver? Practice is free. Blaming poor driving on money or not having some new mod is a terrible excuse.

Originally Posted by Grizzly4x4

That is why I will keep my "elitist attitude", learn from what I think hurt comp crawling, and do what I believe will benefit RC rockcrawling in the future.

Then please convince your fellow rules makers to create black and white rules.....and get rid of the "well, I dont like the way that looks, so it's not legal" crap that is in there...

[Grizzly4x4]

Originally Posted by JeremyH

I dont see that at all. I have seen first hand what happens when you build the same courses over and over again....people lose interest. People build new styles of courses to make things different and challenging.

The same thing is happening in scale.....

Courses change with the times and obsolete equipment. When we were building driveshaft dig it was considered an advantage on the course. After the dig trans became big courses got insane tight corners and you needed it just to finish a course clean.

With Berg axles came the increased belly clearance and courses always had obstacles that would keep a belly dragger from getting up clean, or at all.

With super light rigs comes the jumping obstacles.

Originally Posted by JeremyH

That might be the case for you, but it certainly isnt for everyone. People love competition. If they didnt, then there would be no comps with scalers......but there are.

If you were right the comp scene would be getting bigger because the only thing that wins comps is practice. So why do you think comp interest is down?
For most of my friends and guys I meet at events, a scale "comp" is simply an excuse to travel 12+ hours to hang out with other link-minded folks and drive cool trucks together.

Originally Posted by JeremyH

Why does this keep getting repeated? Why do people think that money or objects makes you a good driver? Practice is free. Blaming poor driving on money or not having some new mod is a terrible excuse.

Because a shafty with dig will not even get you in the top 50% at a major comp. I agree that practice is big; as a married family man I used to get jealous of the guys who constantly beat me and their 3 times per week practice schedule. But never underestimate the lure of better equipment, it's there.

Originally Posted by JeremyH

Then please convince your fellow rules makers to create black and white rules.....and get rid of the "well, I dont like the way that looks, so it's not legal" crap that is in there...

Not possible. Scale is about looks, and looks is subjective to the individual perception. However a standard must be maintained or someone will try and pass off their Delrin sporty chassis as scale.
Scale comps are a small part of scale anyway, most scale lovers build and drive their rigs for nothing more than their own personal enjoyment. In that case, anything they feel is scale.......is.

[JeremyH]

Originally Posted by Grizzly4x4

So why do you think comp interest is down?

I think people get frustrated that they dont win at their first comp and they arent willing to put in the practice it takes to win. My club has realized that and we have adjusted our course setup to help give people confidence when they are new to comp crawling.

Originally Posted by Grizzly4x4

Because a shafty with dig will not even get you in the top 50% at a major comp.

You sure about that? I seem to recall Jake doing pretty damn well with his LCC.....

Originally Posted by Grizzly4x4

For most of my friends and guys I meet at events, a scale "comp" is simply an excuse to travel 12+ hours to hang out with other link-minded folks and drive cool trucks together.

Funny, same here.

Originally Posted by Grizzly4x4

...looks is subjective to the individual perception.

Agreed. One person's perception is going to be different from another's.....especially in different parts of the country. You see any southern buggies in CO? Doubt it. You think we see any PNW looking rigs (SWB and big mud flaps) in Texas? Hell no. Do you think Mud Flaps "look scale" to me?

Every day in the scale rules section I see one guy telling another guy that something doesn't look scale and he shouldn't get points for that....

At least in the comp rules, you know how your rig is gonna be teched when you set it down on the table.

Originally Posted by Grizzly4x4

Scale comps are a small part of scale anyway, most scale lovers build and drive their rigs for nothing more than their own personal enjoyment. In that case, anything they feel is scale.......is.

I completely agree. I like scalers. Hell, I love RCs in general. I build (or buy) my scale trucks so that they make me happy. When I show up to a comp, I ask them what class my scaler belongs in, then I drive it.

[Grizzly4x4]

Originally Posted by JeremyH

I think people get frustrated that they dont win at their first comp and they arent willing to put in the practice it takes to win. My club has realized that and we have adjusted our course setup to help give people confidence when they are new to comp crawling.

I think for most people it's not even about winning. It's about feeling like you are competitive. I remember when I started placing 15th at comps. I was never one to win many comps, heck I think I only ever won 1 or 2, but I finished in the top 5 alot; I (and others) felt I was a threat to win at any comp. Once you don't feel like you are competitive and can't finish courses, you get tired of playing.

It's great to help new people and I am glad to hear that you guys do.

Originally Posted by JeremyH

You sure about that? I seem to recall Jake doing pretty damn well with his LCC.....

I knew I should have put in my disclaimer about being one of the best drivers in the country in case you pulled out something like that. I'm talking about the "also-rans" on the signup sheet, not 2 or 3 guys in the country.

Originally Posted by JeremyH

Funny, same here.

Originally Posted by JeremyH

Agreed. One person's perception is going to be different from another's.....especially in different parts of the country. You see any southern buggies in CO? Doubt it. You think we see any PNW looking rigs (SWB and big mud flaps) in Texas? Hell no. Do you think Mud Flaps "look scale" to me?

Every day in the scale rules section I see one guy telling another guy that something doesn't look scale and he shouldn't get points for that....

At least in the comp rules, you know how your rig is gonna be teched when you set it down on the table.

That's because a USRCCA tech table is all about whether or not you will be able to run. At a scale comp tech table it's more about how many handicap points you end up with, you might get denied a few points but you will be able to run.
People push rules to gain a technical advantage to perform better at comps and that's not what scale comps are supposed to be about, that's what USRCCA comps are for. Certain things like a tube bed get points, but since it's not spelled out exactly what a tube bed is people will ask if their rollbar kickers running down to the frame counts as a tube bed. You can't have rules and leave some room for creativity without some grey areas.

Originally Posted by JeremyH

I completely agree. I like scalers. Hell, I love RCs in general. I build (or buy) my scale trucks so that they make me happy. When I show up to a comp, I ask them what class my scaler belongs in, then I drive it.

And that's the way it should be.

[rc dreemer]

Originally Posted by cytogen

Dunno if this was mentioned, but out of the xr10 kit, how much if it stayed stock, on average? The common thing I saw was axles. Guys swapped everything else out. So why bother buying a whole
kit for just the axles?

IMO, I think this was why the kit declined and discontinued.

It's unfortunately for the new moa guys like me as I was looking forward to building one, but can't get one now.

i agree with this!!! my thought is that axial could sell the axles and the stock "chassis" for around what the whole kit cost ($150-$185) & i think they would be back in the black on sales side of it..... but my question on that (on here awhile ago) kinda didn't go too far. but i am still a newbie & don't know the who who's & what what's on here....

[rc dreemer]

Originally Posted by Sheepdawg23wm

..... My idea to blow the comp scene back up would require Traxxas or axial to release a rtr crawler and start a new spec class like what happened with the slash. Basically, you comp the rtr totally stock and only allowed to tune shocks, links and foams. The biggest problem I see is guys know they have no chance of winning with a stock or stockish truck currently, but a spec class would cure that problem. Thats my 2 cents worth.

now to a newbie like me i think this sounds like it would be great idea!!!!! ....