Choosing a motor and ESC for your Wraith - Gearing Added!

[Jeepfixer1]

Hey guys, I just got in a 27t torque master from Holmes hobbies and was excited to put it in. I had it in my wraith in 45 min. Had a fully charged 5700 mah 2s lipo ready to go. Took off and while torqy and smoother than the stock 20 turn axial motor. It seems slower. Not what I was going for. I'm using the stock pinion and spur just to make sure that's what I wanted. Is it good to gear this faster or should I just sell this motor and get a Holmes 20 or 18 turn brushed motor. I like to play in the rocks a little but love too haul ass over em more. Please let me know what you think. Thanks Matt B.

[Harley]

Originally Posted by Jeepfixer1

Hey guys, I just got in a 27t torque master from Holmes hobbies and was excited to put it in. I had it in my wraith in 45 min. Had a fully charged 5700 mah 2s lipo ready to go. Took off and while torqy and smoother than the stock 20 turn axial motor. It seems slower. Not what I was going for. I'm using the stock pinion and spur just to make sure that's what I wanted. Is it good to gear this faster or should I just sell this motor and get a Holmes 20 or 18 turn brushed motor. I like to play in the rocks a little but love too haul ass over em more. Please let me know what you think. Thanks Matt B.

This is all covered in depth in the beginning of this thread. Almost word for word what you are asking.

You cannot run a faster brushed motor or you will burn it up quickly. You also cannot gear that motor faster or you will burn it up.

If you want to go faster you need to go brushless.

[Jeepfixer1]

I know that's why I went with the 27t Holmes motor on your advice. I know you know your RC's. I understand the axial motor is crap. I went with the 27t because you said it would be a little faster and still some crawling ability. It definitely seems slower. I am assuming the 18- 20 turn Holmes motor would be faster than the 20turn axial motor? Is that right? Also would the stock esc hold up to the 18 or 20 turn Holmes. I didn't really want the expense of brushless yet. Or what would the 27 turn do on 3s compared to stock on 2s. Also will the stock esc hold up to 3s? Thanks Harley, I know you said that with brushed you are not going to get much faster than stock and still be able to crawl. But I didn't want to go slower if ya know what I mean

[Jeepfixer1]

All things being equal. Is axials choice of a 20 turn in the wraith the reason everyone burns the stock motor out. Because we are asking of more crawling in a rig that the 20 turn was never meant to do. No matter what brand of motor that is? Thanks again!

[Harley]

Originally Posted by Jeepfixer1

I know that's why I went with the 27t Holmes motor on your advice. I know you know your RC's. I understand the axial motor is crap. I went with the 27t because you said it would be a little faster and still some crawling ability. It definitely seems slower. I am assuming the 18- 20 turn Holmes motor would be faster than the 20turn axial motor? Is that right? Also would the stock esc hold up to the 18 or 20 turn Holmes. I didn't really want the expense of brushless yet. Or what would the 27 turn do on 3s compared to stock on 2s. Also will the stock esc hold up to 3s? Thanks Harley, I know you said that with brushed you are not going to get much faster than stock and still be able to crawl. But I didn't want to go slower if ya know what I mean

You need to read the beginners guide. It again covers these question.

3s is fine but you need a BEC. Again if you want a faster motor you need to go brushless. That's the short version.

[Speedweigand]

Originally Posted by Jeepfixer1

All things being equal. Is axials choice of a 20 turn in the wraith the reason everyone burns the stock motor out. Because we are asking of more crawling in a rig that the 20 turn was never meant to do. No matter what brand of motor that is? Thanks again!

The problem is not the motor, it's the silly short course truck gearing it comes with stock and the fact the motor gets 0 air flow for cooling.

Run 3s, get a BEC(the stock esc bec circuit will not like 3s) run 14/87 gears and almost any motor will last a long time...

You should always be able to leave a finger on the motor, if it's too hot for your finger it's too hot for the solder and epoxy inside the motor... @150F is as hot as I would ever run something I care about... After a trip past 180F or beyond you'll notice a loss in power and heat problems will soon multiply.

The Wraith is the equivalent to a 6000 pound rock crawler with 2000HP... you are trying to drive it in 4th gear Real rock crawlers run multiple transfer cases and low axle gears (high #'s) to get the gearing low enough, you must do the same.

I recommend 2 RC's one fast, one slow compromise just means something has to suck. Also maybe consider the Summit 2 speed trans if you really want the best of both worlds.

Bottom line, run your truck hard for 5min and check the temp... lets say 160F, so we drop 2 teeth on the pinion. Now run it hard again for 10min and check the temps, lets say we're at 150. Now drop 2 more teeth and run it for 20min, you should be in the 140's... if it's back up to 150F drop more teeth. 3 on the spur is basically 1 in the pinion FYI. The correct gearing is one that does not melt your motor. If it's not fast enough run 4s, motor RPM is the only way to run low gears and still achieve reasonable top speeds.

Just because 20/80 is fine for some dood in Kansas does not mean it's right for you... Different scenario same story, I have a SCTe race truck. All of the guys at the track run 2-3teeth more on the pinion than me. The difference? they race for 10min then there truck sits til the next race. They practice just like they race. I on the other hand I stay on the track til the battery's dead 25-30min+ then I strap in a fresh one and repeat... My gearing is such that I can literally run til hell freezes over and not overheat. No fans, no shenanigans, no problems just proper gearing for survival.

Hope this helps you out,
Speed

[o0wiz0o]

I wish you had posted this two days ago. I'm now on 18/87...Would have bought a smaller Pinion.

Edit: Although I do live in England which is always cold....I was also thinking about creating a duct for airflow to the motor...

[Speedweigand]

Originally Posted by o0wiz0o

I wish you had posted this two days ago. I'm now on 18/87...Would have bought a smaller Pinion.

Edit: Although I do live in England which is always cold....I was also thinking about creating a duct for airflow to the motor...

Lol sorry, you can always add a hole by the passenger side seat for some ventilation... I keep 14, 16 and 18 on hand, that covers nearly every kind of terrain. Don't be afraid to change your gearing for different types of terrain, remember compromise literally means something has to suck.

[o0wiz0o]

That is true. But it's not easy to get to the pinion in the Wraith. I wonder how long before I strip the thread in the chassis if I kept switching!

[Speedweigand]

Originally Posted by o0wiz0o

That is true. But it's not easy to get to the pinion in the Wraith. I wonder how long before I strip the thread in the chassis if I kept switching!

Your doing it wrong! lol
Run only the 4 outer screws in your chassis and 1 in the gear cover.
To change pinions remove the frt chassis screws and loosen the rears a hair.
Swing the frt of the chassis down and remove the bottom/only screw from your cover.
Go in between the chassis rails from the side and loosen the pinion set screw!
Swap pinions
Reinstall
Now your all set... only takes minutes!

Edit: ...and before you install screws in plastic, turn them ccw first til you feel the threads "drop in" then tighten... that way your reusing the previous threads and not whoring it out making new ones!

Cheers from Ohio!

[o0wiz0o]

Genius! Thanks.

[Sh0rtBus]

Originally Posted by Speedweigand

Bottom line, run your truck hard for 5min and check the temp... lets say 160F, so we drop 2 teeth on the pinion. Now run it hard again for 10min and check the temps, lets say we're at 150. Now drop 2 more teeth and run it for 20min, you should be in the 140's... if it's back up to 150F drop more teeth. 3 on the spur is basically 1 in the pinion FYI. The correct gearing is one that does not melt your motor. If it's not fast enough run 4s, motor RPM is the only way to run low gears and still achieve reasonable top speeds.

This has to be probably the best explanation I've seen on how to tell if your gearing is correct. Guess I need to invest in a decent temp gun soon. I'd rather not have to keep touching my finger to the can.

[rockpanda]

I've got my Wraith running Tekin redline 8.5T sedsored, geared 21-75, Hobbyking 150a brushless esc and 4200 4cell 70-110c LiPo. 35 mins run time, cool as a cucumber. Crawls great suprisingly too!

[Speedweigand]

Originally Posted by rockpanda

I've got my Wraith running Tekin redline 8.5T sedsored, geared 21-75, Hobbyking 150a brushless esc and 4200 4cell 70-110c LiPo. 35 mins run time, cool as a cucumber. Crawls great suprisingly too!

Man I'd like to see some video of that!

[MiniMorris]

can a mamba max pro run a 6.5T tekin sc4x on 4s?

[98sierra]

Ok i know what everyone is going to say but i have a mmp and tekin 13.5t and was wondering for good crawling and good wheel speed but have pretty good battery life what shold i run in 48 pitch 87/15

[o0wiz0o]

Hello,

I'm currently using a cheap 27t Axial motor. I have change the pinion to 18t and left the spur as 80t (87 on the way) The motor gets stupidly hot when crawling. I'm hoping the 87t spur will cool it's heels. I have lost a lot of topend speed though and expect to loose more...

[Speedweigand]

Originally Posted by MiniMorris

can a mamba max pro run a 6.5T tekin sc4x on 4s?

The MMP can but idk about the motor surviving long.

Originally Posted by 98sierra

Ok i know what everyone is going to say but i have a mmp and tekin 13.5t and was wondering for good crawling and good wheel speed but have pretty good battery life what shold i run in 48 pitch 87/15

That should crawl very well at 87/15... and forever. On a 4000mah 3s I'd expect 45min+ of runtime easy and I don't see heat ever being an issue with that gear regardless of the weight of your rig.

Originally Posted by o0wiz0o

Hello,

I'm currently using a cheap 27t Axial motor. I have change the pinion to 18t and left the spur as 80t (87 on the way) The motor gets stupidly hot when crawling. I'm hoping the 87t spur will cool it's heels. I have lost a lot of topend speed though and expect to loose more...

Your going to end up at 16/87 might as well just buy them now
Calculate your speed here R/C Calculations

[o0wiz0o]

Your a star. Thanks for the advice. :-)

[pmadrid13]

I finally got my first Wraith, it has a Tekin 17.5 with MMP (HPI version) and I believe it has the stock gears from a RTR (not completely sure since this was a kit). I'm going to move stuff around and wanted to know if the 56/14 will work fine with this set-up since there is a brand new 32p set with all the extra parts or what would you guys recommend, I'm not looking for speed, will mainly be doing crawling and trail walking with my 2 yr old son.