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Fishmaxx · 12-14-2010, 12:03 PM

U.S. Tax System explained in Beer

Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to $100.
If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:

The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay $1.
The sixth would pay $3.
The seventh would pay $7.
The eighth would pay $12.
The ninth would pay $18.
The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.

So, that's what they decided to do. The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve. 'Since you are all such good customers,' he said, 'I'm going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20. 'Drinks for the ten now cost just $80.The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes so the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free. But what about the other six men - the paying customers?

How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his 'fair share?' They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer. So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay.

And so the fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings)..
The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33%savings).
The seventh now pay $5 instead of $7 (28%savings).
The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings).
The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 ( 22% savings).
The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).

Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free.

But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings...

'I only got a dollar out of the $20,' declared the sixth man.
He pointed to the tenth man,' but he got $10! ''Yeah, that's right,' exclaimed the fifth man.
'I only saved a dollar, too.. It's unfair that he got ten times more than I! ''That's true!!' shouted the seventh man.
'Why should he get $10 back when I got only two?
The wealthy get all the breaks!
''Wait a minute,' yelled the first four men in unison. 'We didn't get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!
'The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up. The next night the tenth man ( the richest) didn't show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn't have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!

And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.

paintballer9876 · 12-14-2010, 12:47 PM

i think its fair that everyone is taxed exactly the same percentage no less and no more, if a tax break is given everyone gets that percentage of a tax break, but then again making everyone equal isnt fair.

Reflection · 12-14-2010, 12:57 PM

http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServ...ame=about_main

paintballer9876 · 12-14-2010, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reflection

http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServ...ame=about_main

or that

Duuuuuuuude · 12-14-2010, 04:00 PM

1. The 1st 4 men shouldn't be out drinking anyway. They can't afford it.

2. The 10th and richest man still has more money than the other 9 combined. Lets face it, he's repeatedly buying $59 beers. A lopsided system obviously isn't that much of a bother to him.

3. The reason the 10th man left was not because of the bill (which he was happily paying), it was because he realized he was drinking with assholes.

JeremyH · 12-14-2010, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reflection

http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServ...ame=about_main

Yep!

Tax those people who are currently avoiding paying taxes on their illegally earned salaries!

Duuuuuuuude · 12-14-2010, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeremyH

Yep!

Tax those people who are currently avoiding paying taxes on their illegally earned salaries!

It'll never work, its too easy to implement and understand.

Besides, think about all the IRS employees who would be out of a job.

JeremyH · 12-14-2010, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude

It'll never work, its too easy to implement and understand.

Besides, think about all the IRS employees who would be out of a job.

Exactly....that is why it would never pass. Or so it would seem. We still would need people to process the revenue. Now, it would just be CPAs and computer jockeys at HRBlock that would be out of a job.

BTW, I would LOVE the ability to control my own taxes.....you dont like paying tax? Don't buy luxurious stuff! Maybe then Americans would live a modest lifestyle instead of completely out of their means.

Duuuuuuuude · 12-14-2010, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeremyH

BTW, I would LOVE the ability to control my own taxes.....you dont like paying tax? Don't buy luxurious stuff! Maybe then Americans would live a modest lifestyle instead of completely out of their means.

Thats crazy talk!

paintballer9876 · 12-14-2010, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude

1. The 1st 4 men shouldn't be out drinking anyway. They can't afford it.

2. The 10th and richest man still has more money than the other 9 combined. Lets face it, he's repeatedly buying $59 beers. A lopsided system obviously isn't that much of a bother to him.

3. The reason the 10th man left was not because of the bill (which he was happily paying), it was because he realized he was drinking with assholes.

1. Bear represents taxes the 4 of them don't pay taxes so they get bear for free

2. Just because he has money doesn't mean he wants to part with it, he pays taxes (buys beer) because if he doesn't he goes to prison.

3. He left because the people that payed less taxes got greedy and attacked him.

The group that screams the loudest gets what they want

To be fair the poor should be taxed so they can pay for the homeless guy begging for change on the street.

RANOVRU · 12-14-2010, 04:36 PM

Interesting & rather humorous analogy.

Im not following the first four though. Its actually to the contrary. "Poor" people who have an income may not have their income taxed, but they definately pay taxes when they buy something, just like everyone else.

In the story theyre getting something for free. To me, thats not the same as not being required to do something because of standards not met.

salmonshark · 12-14-2010, 04:37 PM

I believe I read some study or w/e that said currently, out of the people who file a tax return, 47% of them end up having no tax liability. That is a scary number if true.

SS

RANOVRU · 12-14-2010, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paintballer9876

To be fair the poor should be taxed so they can pay for the homeless guy begging for change on the street.

And while we're at it, lets tax the coins going in the homeless guys cup.

After all, you gotta pay for that street corner.

RANOVRU · 12-14-2010, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeremyH

BTW, I would LOVE the ability to control my own taxes.....you dont like paying tax? Don't buy luxurious stuff! Maybe then Americans would live a modest lifestyle instead of completely out of their means.

That, is a good idea.

Duuuuuuuude · 12-14-2010, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paintballer9876

1. Bear represents taxes the 4 of them don't pay taxes so they get bear for free

Bear?

Quote:

Originally Posted by paintballer9876

2. Just because he has money doesn't mean he wants to part with it, he pays taxes (buys beer) because if he doesn't he goes to prison.

No, it says they were all happy with the arrangement.

Quote:

Originally Posted by paintballer9876

3. He left because the people that payed less taxes got greedy and attacked him.

Like I said, he figured out they were assholes.

This is a very one sided analogy. If the situation were changed just a tad to where it was explained to and understood by the 9 other people why the 10th man got a bigger break, then it would have ended there and painted everyone as somewhat sane. Instead, it makes the rich man the victim, and everyone else greedy knuckle dragging neanderthals that aren't capable of any real reasoning skills.

Quote:

Originally Posted by paintballer9876

The group that screams the loudest gets what they want

True. For all we know, the rich guy didn't show up the next night because he was busy putting together a special interest group to persuade the bartender to change the way the bill was written. Happens all the time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by paintballer9876

To be fair the poor should be taxed so they can pay for the homeless guy begging for change on the street.

At least the homeless guy is working.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RANOVRU

Interesting & rather humorous analogy.

Yup, but not very accurate...

Quote:

Originally Posted by RANOVRU

In the story theyre getting something for free. To me, thats not the same as not being required to do something because of standards not met.

True, they are all showing up and paying (or not) for something they desire, not need, not require.

RANOVRU · 12-14-2010, 04:57 PM

Duuude, I see now how you took my post after I reread it.

What I meant was, not having your income taxed because you dont make but xyz, isnt the same (to me) as "getting something for free".

Duuuuuuuude · 12-14-2010, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RANOVRU

Duuude, I see now how you took my post after I reread it.

What I meant was, not having your income taxed because you dont make but xyz, isnt the same (to me) as "getting something for free".

But you are getting something for free. A government and all the services it provides.

Reflection · 12-14-2010, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude

Besides, think about all the IRS employees who would be out of a job.

You mean they might have to actually get a job? There's always ditches to be dug, crops to tend to or hamburgers to flip.

RANOVRU · 12-14-2010, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude

But you are getting something for free. A government and all the services it provides.

No, youre just not "required" to have it taxed.

IMO, not having to adhear to a requirement, isnt the same thing as "getting something for free". But thats just my opnion.

On on the second sentence, thats debatable....

Duuuuuuuude · 12-14-2010, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reflection

You mean they might have to actually get a job? There's always ditches to be dug, crops to tend to or hamburgers to flip.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RANOVRU

IMO, not having to adhear to a requirement, isnt the same thing as "getting something for free". But thats just my opnion.

Its only a "requirement" because they are providing those services whether you want them or not, and they are being provided equally to all citizens.

Unless certain programs are dropped, you don't have a choice as to where your tax dollars go. They provide them and you are forced to pay for it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RANOVRU

On on the second sentence, thats debatable....

I should have added "for better or worse" to the end.

12-14-2010, 12:03 PM	#1
Fishmaxx I wanna be Dave Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: on a Big Rock Posts: 7,837	U.S. Tax System explained in Beer U.S. Tax System explained in Beer Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this: The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing. The fifth would pay $1. The sixth would pay $3. The seventh would pay $7. The eighth would pay $12. The ninth would pay $18. The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59. So, that's what they decided to do. The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve. 'Since you are all such good customers,' he said, 'I'm going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20. 'Drinks for the ten now cost just $80.The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes so the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free. But what about the other six men - the paying customers? How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his 'fair share?' They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer. So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay. And so the fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings).. The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33%savings). The seventh now pay $5 instead of $7 (28%savings). The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings). The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 ( 22% savings). The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings). Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings... 'I only got a dollar out of the $20,' declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man,' but he got $10! ''Yeah, that's right,' exclaimed the fifth man. 'I only saved a dollar, too.. It's unfair that he got ten times more than I! ''That's true!!' shouted the seventh man. 'Why should he get $10 back when I got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks! ''Wait a minute,' yelled the first four men in unison. 'We didn't get anything at all. The system exploits the poor! 'The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up. The next night the tenth man ( the richest) didn't show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn't have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill! And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.

12-14-2010, 12:47 PM	#2
paintballer9876 Quarry Creeper Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Punta Gorda, Flo-rida Posts: 453	i think its fair that everyone is taxed exactly the same percentage no less and no more, if a tax break is given everyone gets that percentage of a tax break, but then again making everyone equal isnt fair.

12-14-2010, 12:57 PM	#3
Reflection TEAM MODERATOR Join Date: May 2004 Location: Tennessee Posts: 10,855	http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServ...ame=about_main

12-14-2010, 04:00 PM	#5
Duuuuuuuude Suck it up! Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Arkansas Posts: 11,652	1. The 1st 4 men shouldn't be out drinking anyway. They can't afford it. 2. The 10th and richest man still has more money than the other 9 combined. Lets face it, he's repeatedly buying $59 beers. A lopsided system obviously isn't that much of a bother to him. 3. The reason the 10th man left was not because of the bill (which he was happily paying), it was because he realized he was drinking with assholes.

12-14-2010, 04:36 PM	#11
RANOVRU Quarry Creeper Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Mechanicsville, VA Posts: 464	Interesting & rather humorous analogy. Im not following the first four though. Its actually to the contrary. "Poor" people who have an income may not have their income taxed, but they definately pay taxes when they buy something, just like everyone else. In the story theyre getting something for free. To me, thats not the same as not being required to do something because of standards not met.

12-14-2010, 04:37 PM	#12
salmonshark Pebble Pounder Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Renton Posts: 171	I believe I read some study or w/e that said currently, out of the people who file a tax return, 47% of them end up having no tax liability. That is a scary number if true. SS

12-14-2010, 04:57 PM	#16
RANOVRU Quarry Creeper Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Mechanicsville, VA Posts: 464	Duuude, I see now how you took my post after I reread it. What I meant was, not having your income taxed because you dont make but xyz, isnt the same (to me) as "getting something for free".

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