U.S. Tax System explained in Beer

[Duuuuuuuude]

Originally Posted by RANOVRU

Obviously not everyone has the understanding to be self-sufficient.

So youre talking about an "only the strong survive" mentality?

Not at all.

Remove the worry of money from the equation of living, things get much simpler. People are happier. So get rid of money.

Look at the Amish. They all work together to keep their community going strong. They only work for money to buy goods from outside retailers. They grow their food, they build their buildings, they make their clothes. They aren't greedy or violent. They know what they need and make it happen for the good of the community. If their belief system did not limit them technologically, imagine what they could be achieving today.

[RANOVRU]

I understand what youre saying, but to most, that would come off like you want everyone to become amish.


I would really like to see the % of the poulation that would like to see $ go away, lol.


We live in a matierial world.


Do you feel as though you should deny someone else of obtaining $30mil homes & dozens of cars? Capitalism is starting to fade from the picture.


So the above person is supposed to obtain what they want how? With no monetary/barter system in place, are they to build their own $30mil mansion & their own collectible cars??

[RANOVRU]

Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude

Not at all.

Remove the worry of money from the equation of living, things get much simpler. People are happier. So get rid of money.

Look at the Amish. They all work together to keep their community going strong. They only work for money to buy goods from outside retailers. They grow their food, they build their buildings, they make their clothes. They aren't greedy or violent. They know what they need and make it happen for the good of the community. If their belief system did not limit them technologically, imagine what they could be achieving today.

Or their lack of $$$....

[rock hard]

Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude

Not at all.

Remove the worry of money from the equation of living, things get much simpler. People are happier. So get rid of money.

Look at the Amish. They all work together to keep their community going strong. They only work for money to buy goods from outside retailers. They grow their food, they build their buildings, they make their clothes. They aren't greedy or violent. They know what they need and make it happen for the good of the community. If their belief system did not limit them technologically, imagine what they could be achieving today.

So they arnt that different than the rest of us.

Thats an assumption

[Duuuuuuuude]

The problem with capitalism is if you can find a way to make money, you can. It doesn't matter if you are furthering or bettering society while you do it. Competition between capitalists can result in faulty, dangerous, even deadly products that do no real good but supply the perceived need. Or, as we've found out recently, that competition can blow a big ass hole in the nations economy.

Take pharmaceutical corporations. Half (or more) of the crap they put out to market now are flat out dangerous or create a lifelong dependency on a particular drug. Why do they still offer it to the public? Because so much money is invested that they have to turn a profit to keep their doors open and their accounts in the black. When medication is approved for public use, it only has to pass 2 clinical trials. That sounds fine until you realize that those were only 2 out of possibly 100 or more failed trials. That is a 2% success rate on something that people are staking their well being or even their lives on. If it weren't for the profit motive, those products would be developed much further and have a much higher success rate before being shipped out for consumption.

Same thing with food. Corporate farms are nasty, dirty, growth hormone saturated pits of despair. Plainly put, today's commercial meat is unhealthy shit. Why? Profit. Take the need for profit out and the farms grow larger, cleaner, healthier, and give people things to do. And it would be done properly.

Nobody needs a $30 million dollar home and a fleet of cars. Why would you? Its just something to spend your money on because you've got nothing better to do with it. And yes, if you want a house that damn big, you best get to building.

This is a material world, and its got our values upside down and backwards. We spend so much time chasing what we want that we forget or ignore what we need. The "American Dream" is a bullshit ploy to get us to work hard for somebody else, get paid, then turn right around and give that money to another somebody else for shit we don't need. The average American is nothing more than a middle man in a very elaborate money exchange program.

[Duuuuuuuude]

Originally Posted by rock hard

So they arnt that different than the rest of us.

Thats an assumption

They are in the fact that if a certain item does not better the community, then it is not allowed. There are some things that they cannot provide themselves but are still allowed to use, so they must be purchased.

[rock hard]

Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude

The problem with capitalism is if you can find a way to make money, you can. It doesn't matter if you are furthering or bettering society while you do it. Competition between capitalists can result in faulty, dangerous, even deadly products that do no real good but supply the perceived need. Or, as we've found out recently, that competition can blow a big ass hole in the nations economy.

Take pharmaceutical corporations. Half (or more) of the crap they put out to market now are flat out dangerous or create a lifelong dependency on a particular drug. Why do they still offer it to the public? Because so much money is invested that they have to turn a profit to keep their doors open and their accounts in the black. When medication is approved for public use, it only has to pass 2 clinical trials. That sounds fine until you realize that those were only 2 out of possibly 100 or more failed trials. That is a 2% success rate on something that people are staking their well being or even their lives on. If it weren't for the profit motive, those products would be developed much further and have a much higher success rate before being shipped out for consumption.

Same thing with food. Corporate farms are nasty, dirty, growth hormone saturated pits of despair. Plainly put, today's commercial meat is unhealthy shit. Why? Profit. Take the need for profit out and the farms grow larger, cleaner, healthier, and give people things to do. And it would be done properly.

Nobody needs a $30 million dollar home and a fleet of cars. Why would you? Its just something to spend your money on because you've got nothing better to do with it. And yes, if you want a house that damn big, you best get to building.

This is a material world, and its got our values upside down and backwards. We spend so much time chasing what we want that we forget or ignore what we need. The "American Dream" is a bullshit ploy to get us to work hard for somebody else, get paid, then turn right around and give that money to another somebody else for shit we don't need. The average American is nothing more than a middle man in a very elaborate money exchange program.

The fda (goverment ) is the biggest problem with farming,ranching and the drug market
who knows the name of the person who runs the fda?
who elected them?
I have always felt the fda is as corrupt as the day is long

Now as far as what people need

I'm sure you know what you need.
But I prefer to decide for myself what I need

what I need to survive,and what I need to be happy are 2 different things
what I need isnt a 30million dollar home
I need a 300,000 dollar boat

I dont know what my neibor need,maybe it is a 30million dollar home.
But its not each of us to decide.

The amish could live without any money,but there are some things they
need I guess that requires money.

some people needs require more money than others

I need a rc,a tv,a watch,telephone,ect,ect,ect.

maybe you dont,maybe you dont need a car,maybe your fine riding a bike
we each have different levels of what will satisfy us.

[rock hard]

Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude

They are in the fact that if a certain item does not better the community, then it is not allowed. There are some things that they cannot provide themselves but are still allowed to use, so they must be purchased.

all matters of thier opinion

they may not allow guns,I say guns would better a community mayself
again just an opinion

they may not allow radio,I say radio would better the community

But either way,the make goods and sell for cash

they need money too

Some may say the amish are strong,some may say they weak
its a matter of perception

they are certainly strong i thier beliefs,convictions,morals

But as a community how strong would they be against a forign threat?

[Duuuuuuuude]

Originally Posted by rock hard

The fda (goverment ) is the biggest problem with farming,ranching and the drug market
who knows the name of the person who runs the fda?
who elected them?
I have always felt the fda is as corrupt as the day is long

Now as far as what people need

I'm sure you know what you need.
But I prefer to decide for myself what I need

what I need to survive,and what I need to be happy are 2 different things
what I need isnt a 30million dollar home
I need a 300,000 dollar boat

I dont know what my neibor need,maybe it is a 30million dollar home.
But its not each of us to decide.

The amish could live without any money,but there are some things they
need I guess that requires money.

some people needs require more money than others

I need a rc,a tv,a watch,telephone,ect,ect,ect.

maybe you dont,maybe you dont need a car,maybe your fine riding a bike
we each have different levels of what will satisfy us.

Any branch of the government is corrupt on some level. The more money involved, the deeper the corruption.

People need food, clothing, shelter, security, and entertainment. That is enough to keep people alive and healthy both mentaly and physicaly.

You say you "need" a $300k boat. Why? Would you be just as happy if you had access to one even though you didn't own it?

A $30 mil dollar home is not "needed" unless you've got every single one of your relatives (like 40 or more of them) living with you.

People only percieve that they need these things because they've been trained to. People aren't perceived as "successful" unless they've got some item of excess in their possesion.

[Duuuuuuuude]

Originally Posted by rock hard

all matters of thier opinion

they may not allow guns,I say guns would better a community mayself
again just an opinion

they may not allow radio,I say radio would better the community

But either way,the make goods and sell for cash

they need money too

Some may say the amish are strong,some may say they weak
its a matter of perception

they are certainly strong i thier beliefs,convictions,morals

But as a community how strong would they be against a forign threat?

I don't know if they allow guns or not. I would guess that they are, but I could be wrong. I'm sure that there is very little threat from within the community as far as theft, assault, etc goes.

edit: they do use guns for hunting and for keeping rodents and whatnot out of their crops.

No radio as far as I know. Not too much good comes out of that box either.

I must admit, I do admire the Amish in certain aspects of their lives. Their strength in community and morals is miles above what you'll find in many town across this country.

Foreign threats? I would say that they would either get left alone, or face the same consiquences that the rest of us would. I would imagine that if the time came for them to take up arms to defend themselves, they would.

[rock hard]

Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude

Any branch of the government is corrupt on some level. The more money involved, the deeper the corruption.

People need food, clothing, shelter, security, and entertainment. That is enough to keep people alive and healthy both mentaly and physicaly.

You say you "need" a $300k boat. Why? Would you be just as happy if you had access to one even though you didn't own it?

A $30 mil dollar home is not "needed" unless you've got every single one of your relatives (like 40 or more of them) living with you.

People only percieve that they need these things because they've been trained to. People aren't perceived as "successful" unless they've got some item of excess in their possesion.

Again I prefer to decide for myself what I need

You say that people need food,clothing,shelter,security and entertainment
Now dude
If you are going to decide what I need than tell me this

how much food/quality of food...are you going to decide that for me too
how much clothing/quality of clothing.......
how much shelter/quality of shelter...........
how much security/quality of security........

You can only decide these thing for yourself and your family

I will decide if I need bolonga or outback for my family to be happy
I will decide if I need walmart or dillard clothes for my family to be happy
I will decide if our shelter of 2500 sq" is enough or if we need another
2500added on to be happy
I will decide is a dogis secuity enough,or if more guns is what we need to be
happy

I need a 300,000 boat,cuz thats what the boat I need to feel safe on the water costs.

No other man or entity will decide for me as long as I'm alive and able bodied what I must make do with

[Duuuuuuuude]

Originally Posted by rock hard

Again I prefer to decide for myself what I need

You say that people need food,clothing,shelter,security and entertainment
Now dude
If you are going to decide what I need than tell me this

how much food/quality of food...are you going to decide that for me too
how much clothing/quality of clothing.......
how much shelter/quality of shelter...........
how much security/quality of security........

You can only decide these thing for yourself and your family

I will decide if I need bolonga or outback for my family to be happy
I will decide if I need walmart or dillard clothes for my family to be happy
I will decide if our shelter of 2500 sq" is enough or if we need another
2500added on to be happy
I will decide is a dogis secuity enough,or if more guns is what we need to be
happy

I need a 300,000 boat,cuz thats what the boat I need to feel safe on the water costs.

No other man or entity will decide for me as long as I'm alive and able bodied what I must make do with

I'm not going to disagree with you, each person has something particular that makes them happy.

You're going to debate quality of food? Since I mentioned how bad commercial food is, I'm assuming your all for it?

What I'm saying is that there are bare essentials to a basic happy life. Would you be happy with your $300k boat if you had no food or water or clothes? Probably not.

Quit assigning a monetary value to what you want or "need". It doesn't tell anyone anything other than you have to spend a lot of money on a particular object to be happy. It also causes you to focus on price instead of what will actually make you happy...the boat.

A $300k boat still leaves a lot of options on the table. Is it that expensive because its got a solid gold toilet, or because its big and fast and strong?

[rock hard]

Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude

I'm not going to disagree with you, each person has something particular that makes them happy.

What I'm saying is that there are bare essentials to a basic happy life. Would you be happy with your $300k boat if you had no food or water or clothes? Probably not.

Quit assigning a monetary value to what you want or "need". It doesn't tell anyone anything other than you have to spend a lot of money on a particular object to be happy. It also causes you to focus on price instead of what will actually make you happy...the boat.

A $300k boat still leaves a lot of options on the table. Is it that expensive because its got a solid gold toilet, or because its big and fast and strong?

Big

I need about a 42-45' boat see worthy and able to makke it 48 hrs on the water with 7 people

[Duuuuuuuude]

Originally Posted by rock hard

Big

I want about a 42-45' boat see worthy and able to makke it 48 hrs on the water with 7 people

Fixed it for ya.

You've managed to survive your life so far without it, and I imagine you'll live your life just fine if you never get it. "Need" isn't really the proper word there. Though I would have to ask, why do you "need" a boat like that?

[rock hard]

Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude

I'm not going to disagree with you, each person has something particular that makes them happy.

What a person needs to make them happy will vary based on thier options.

You're going to debate quality of food? Since I mentioned how bad commercial food is, I'm assuming your all for it?

with money comes more options
I'm happy with commercial food now,but if I had money to burn.
Maybe I would need to pick the aplle from the tree of the organic farm
to really be satisfied

What I'm saying is that there are bare essentials to a basic happy life. Would you be happy with your $300k boat if you had no food or water or clothes? Probably not.

I would still be happy with the boat and the freedom it offered
clothes,food,water are easily obtained.Though you may go short at times
the boat would be much harder to replace.

Quit assigning a monetary value to what you want or "need". It doesn't tell anyone anything other than you have to spend a lot of money on a particular object to be happy. It also causes you to focus on price instead of what will actually make you happy...the boat.

Fact is the boat costs money,a casr costs money,they value amount is relavent
A boat wont make me happy,a bass boat wont do it.
Some people may need that 40,000 truck.
The 40,00 is relavent,as thats the cost of the TYPE of truck they need to be happy.Would a 2,000 used pos work??
probably not if yuo got monay,but if yu dont then yeah

Money changes your options,and therfore your needs

A $300k boat still leaves a lot of options on the table. Is it that expensive because its got a solid gold toilet, or because its big and fast and strong?

........

[rock hard]

Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude

Fixed it for ya.

You've managed to survive your life so far without it, and I imagine you'll live your life just fine if you never get it. "Need" isn't really the proper word there. Though I would have to ask, why do you "need" a boat like that?

I need to live atleast 10yrs of my life on the water

Can I live without it,yes
but I wont be happy with my achievments if I dont
therefore I NEED the boat to be happy
We have a short time to live,its to short to not do what you desire.

I want a fishing rig,take people fishing
I want my boat completly ada accessable

I want to go diving looking for large sea shells

These are things I desire,surely we can live without such things
but if you dont tak eadvantage of your time here,and do what you desire
the are you truelly happy??

You may find happyness in what you have,but as an olld man,sitting in my chair,I would have regrete I didnt get to do the things I desired.

Maybe someone needs that house ontop of the mountian,looking over thier
100 acres
maybe someone needs that island looking at nothing but water

but with money your ability to do things means your desires,wants and needs change as options open up.IMO

[Duuuuuuuude]

Originally Posted by rock hard

with money comes more options
I'm happy with commercial food now,but if I had money to burn.
Maybe I would need to pick the aplle from the tree of the organic farm
to really be satisfied

I would still be happy with the boat and the freedom it offered
clothes,food,water are easily obtained.Though you may go short at times
the boat would be much harder to replace.

Fact is the boat costs money,a casr costs money,they value amount is relavent
A boat wont make me happy,a bass boat wont do it.
Some people may need that 40,000 truck.
The 40,00 is relavent,as thats the cost of the TYPE of truck they need to be happy.Would a 2,000 used pos work??
probably not if yuo got monay,but if yu dont then yeah

Money changes your options,and therfore your needs

You need to re-evaluate your values and what is really important to you.

You're trying to find happiness in a boat, not because its a boat and because you can be out on the water, otherwise a bass boat or even a canoe would do the trick. There is another reason you think a huge boat is important.

edit: saw your next post about taking people out onto the ocean.

The same goes for people who need a $40k truck to find happiness. Its not the truck that makes them happy. There is something else at play.

[Duuuuuuuude]

Originally Posted by rock hard

but with money your ability to do things means your desires,wants and needs change as options open up.IMO

And that is my point of having a money-less society.

If you could live without having to pay out anything, and I mean anything, would you still do the job you are doing right now for free?

If you could be as self sufficient as possible, and have nearly anything else available for your use or consumption, would you be happy?

If you could do something you love to do or would love to do that would benifit society in some way, would you?

[rock hard]

Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude

You need to re-evaluate your values and what is really important to you.

You're trying to find happiness in a boat, not because its a boat and because you can be out on the water, otherwise a bass boat or even a canoe would do the trick. There is another reason you think a huge boat is important.

The same goes for people who need a $40k truck to find happiness. Its not the truck that makes them happy. There is something else at play.

all your opinions based on asumtions

I know exactly what I want and need
I'm looking for the happieness the boat offers
I'm not going out on open ocean in a bass boat

I'll be in the gulf,on the pensicolla area of florida
I'll be heading out 6-15 hrs out at sea
I need twin diesles

the boat I need is around 300,000 I could live with a used boat around
150,000
But I prefer not take a chance buying someone elses problems
salt water is hard on motors,wood ect.

Either way,just cuz you can find happyness is a conuo or a bass boat means nothing to the guy that wants a 40' party barge does it

and its funny,cuz I bet the guy who wants a bass boat wont be happy with the
party boat

[rock hard]

Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude

And that is my point of having a money-less society.

If you could live without having to pay out anything, and I mean anything, would you still do the job you are doing right now for free?

If you could be as self sufficient as possible, and have nearly anything else available for your use or consumption, would you be happy?

If you could do something you love to do or would love to do that would benifit society in some way, would you?

What???
you sound like my friend dad (socialist)

No,people should benifit from thier labors IMO
I dont want to be self efficiant

I hate working in the garden (we have a large one)

I would rather buy black eyed peas,green beans,squash.

Onions,okra,tomatoes,lettuce,mustard greens aint to bad.
But then there is always yrs that are bad,too much rain,not enough rain.
Thewn we buy all our produce
and fruit is hard to just pull out f your ass

I damn sure dont want to see my wife laboring to make clothes



I prefer wortk hard,and pay for what I want

you may not like that syatem,but it suits me just fine