Good Ol' Discussion

[RANOVRU]

Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude

Walmart has an obscene amount of employees on welfare, far more than anyone else. They do that via low wages and less than full time work schedules. Last I checked, all of the Waltons were in the top 10 of the Fortune 500.

I totally agree that minimum wage should be based on regional or even local cost of living.

What would hold a person to a shitty job? Lots of things. Victim of Circumstance. Disability. Crappy education. Stupid mistakes when they were young that they can't go back and change even though they are now a much wiser adult. The inability to afford higher education (or the unwillingness to risk going $40k in the hole on the off chance that they can gain better employment with that higher education). A really shitty job market with very few opportunities for advancement. Job markets based on seasons. The shame spiral and loss of self worth that comes with being abjectly poor. Lack of available transportation to reach the good jobs. Etc, etc.

Some people just have it tough. A fair percentage of those people fight hard to change that, but not everyone succeeds. Yes, there are opportunities abound here in the US, and everyone theoretically has the equal opportunity to make themselves into something great, but in practice it doesn't always work out that way, and simply working hard isn't enough any more.

Just from personal experience, finding a job with solid advancement opportunities is rarely easy. Even then, that growth usually comes with minimal increases in pay and large increases in responsibilities, so much so that it isn't worth the trouble.

If people spent half as much time pursuing ways to find a better job as they did making excuses they could actually do so. Nothing theoretical about it.

Your whole post just reiterates the entitlement mindset. "Life's not easy so someone else should help me out."

[Natedog]

I'ts a complex mix of what Duuuuuuuude and Ranovru have stated...I don't believe in $15/hour minimum wage as it will cause inflation and greatly reduce incentive to do good work. You should see the 'kids' working most places these days, can't even get a simple order right, act like they don't care and dress like a bum with tons of piercings, visible weird and/or ugly tattoos all over their bodies, no social skills, rude, inattentive to customers and think they should be the CEO. :/

[Duuuuuuuude]

Originally Posted by RANOVRU

If people spent half as much time pursuing ways to find a better job as they did making excuses they could actually do so. Nothing theoretical about it.

Your whole post just reiterates the entitlement mindset. "Life's not easy so someone else should help me out."

My late father in law became paralyzed and lost his really good paying job. 6 kids and a wife, a mortgage, two car payments, and no income. My mother in law took the only job she could get (being a housewife with no education or work experience past hs), which was a minimum wage earning receptionist at their local church. A few years later, his insurance dropped him and very quickly they were $300k in debit from medical bills alone, not to mention the $20k worth of maxed out credit cards she was using just to keep all the kids fed and clothed.

Tell me where the entitlement is there, and where she had the time to get the education that would magically yank them out of poverty.

[RANOVRU]

Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude

My late father in law became paralyzed and lost his really good paying job. 6 kids and a wife, a mortgage, two car payments, and no income. My mother in law took the only job she could get (being a housewife with no education or work experience past hs), which was a minimum wage earning receptionist at their local church. A few years later, his insurance dropped him and very quickly they were $300k in debit from medical bills alone, not to mention the $20k worth of maxed out credit cards she was using just to keep all the kids fed and clothed.

Tell me where the entitlement is there, and where she had the time to get the education that would magically yank them out of poverty.

I honestly didn't mean to highlight the disability part of your quote. That is an entirely different subject than MW. And if that's the only thing you took away out of everything else I highlighted in your quote than you are grasping for straws.

[S ARR T 8]

He grasp for straws A lot.

[Duuuuuuuude]

Originally Posted by RANOVRU

I honestly didn't mean to highlight the disability part of your quote. That is an entirely different subject than MW. And if that's the only thing you took away out of everything else I highlighted in your quote than you are grasping for straws.

There absolutely are people who would just rather do the bare minimum and expect to get rich doing it. There is no disagreement there. But a good portion of the able bodied people I know that don't have decent paying jobs want to do better, but either can't catch a break or don't have the means.

My point was that there are a thousand reasons why somebody might be stuck at minimum wage, and to lump them all into the lazy/unmotivated category is woefully shortsighted.

We are the richest country on the planet. There is no reason why someone shouldn't be able to support themselves and their family by doing nothing more than working an honest 40 hours a week. A person used to be able to do that, but inflation and the cost of living has out paced wages and it makes it impossible. A person also used to get a college education for little to nothing. That has changed drastically. Now people are carrying their college tuition loans for decades. That is not an appealing choice at all.

[Duuuuuuuude]

Originally Posted by S ARR T 8

He grasp for straws A lot.

Aren't you the guy that would rather buy cheap Chinese knock-offs instead of supporting the local businesses that actually support our economy and hobby?

Thought so.

[S ARR T 8]

Yeah I used to be a hard core Union guy buy America. But the last few years I am seeing it really don't matter. This country is has been watered down with political correctness and greed I really don't care any more. Might as well save my money and worry about my family and not this country. But I do buy a lot of American made ammo hope that makes you feel better.

[S ARR T 8]

Oh and by the way America is the biggest supporter of China.

[RANOVRU]

Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude

There absolutely are people who would just rather do the bare minimum and expect to get rich doing it. There is no disagreement there. But a good portion of the able bodied people I know that don't have decent paying jobs want to do better, but either can't catch a break or don't have the means.

My point was that there are a thousand reasons why somebody might be stuck at minimum wage, and to lump them all into the lazy/unmotivated category is woefully shortsighted.

We are the richest country on the planet. There is no reason why someone shouldn't be able to support themselves and their family by doing nothing more than working an honest 40 hours a week. A person used to be able to do that, but inflation and the cost of living has out paced wages and it makes it impossible. A person also used to get a college education for little to nothing. That has changed drastically. Now people are carrying their college tuition loans for decades. That is not an appealing choice at all.

You just keep making statements like the above highlighted. Your whole mindset is all wrong.

There are Mexicans I know that make MW but live 10+ to a house. Suddenly $7.25/hr times 10 makes life a lot more livable. There are people who are working 2+ jobs while going to school in order to make a better future for themselves. It all boils down to the effort people are wiling to put forth. This country was built on hard work and ingenuity. Nothing's changed except some peoples entitled mindset.


Your need to fuel that is disturbing to say the least.

[yotapower07]

I feel there should be a way for employers like Walmart and such to offer overtime to their employees that want it and reward those employees that show outstanding performance. Put it out there that if you bust your ass then you'll gain from it. Aside from that though our government throws away billions upon billions of dollars. Money that could be used towards education, housing, medicine etc.

Here's an idea I had a while ago. How many prisons are there? So many bad people locked up for life. How about death penalty instead of a life sentence just go through and wipe them all out. Donate organs free of charge to people that need them and use the freed up "housing" for shelter for the homeless and what have you. Offer training programs or some type of work for those that are using these facilities.

[Rolin Roc]

I'm very proud of my son he holds down 2 jobs & just bought a 2014 chevy impala on his own I always told him if he ever needs help in any way i'll be there for him he holds his head high as he should you can only hope your kids will succeed farther than you have it's my wish anyway.

[Duuuuuuuude]

Originally Posted by RANOVRU

You just keep making statements like the above highlighted. Your whole mindset is all wrong.

There are Mexicans I know that make MW but live 10+ to a house. Suddenly $7.25/hr times 10 makes life a lot more livable. There are people who are working 2+ jobs while going to school in order to make a better future for themselves. It all boils down to the effort people are wiling to put forth. This country was built on hard work and ingenuity. Nothing's changed except some peoples entitled mindset.


Your need to fuel that is disturbing to say the least.

Yup, I've known people like that too. There are really only two ends to that scenario....you either have roommates for life, or you're one of the lucky few that accomplish enough to go out on your own. I'm actually in a similar boat. My wife and son and I live with her mom, in her house. We can't afford one ourselves, she can't afford it alone. It works out well for us, but we aren't 10 people.

Not everyone can commit to two jobs + school. You're line of thinking seems to revolve around people without any other responsibilities.

Have mindsets changed? Sure. But so have the things I've mentioned previously.

Originally Posted by yotapower07

I feel there should be a way for employers like Walmart and such to offer overtime to their employees that want it and reward those employees that show outstanding performance. Put it out there that if you bust your ass then you'll gain from it. Aside from that though our government throws away billions upon billions of dollars. Money that could be used towards education, housing, medicine etc.

Overtime? They don't even like hiring full time. Of everyone in the US on the food stamp program, 20% work at Walmart. Roughly $6b tax dollars a year go towards subsidizing their employees livelyhoods.

But you're right. Pay people for working hard and they'll do it. A shop I worked at went from hourly pay to less hourly + productivity bonus. If they plugged along as usual they still made what they did before, but if they worked smarter and harder and faster, they got paid more. We saw a slow but steady increase in productivity pretty quickly.

Originally Posted by yotapower07

Here's an idea I had a while ago. How many prisons are there? So many bad people locked up for life. How about death penalty instead of a life sentence just go through and wipe them all out. Donate organs free of charge to people that need them and use the freed up "housing" for shelter for the homeless and what have you. Offer training programs or some type of work for those that are using these facilities.

That is an entirely separate issue. Prisons for Profit encourages long prison sentences, and all other sorts of unethical and corrupt behavior to fill the cells and make money for the shareholders. The War on Drugs packs those prisons full of non-violent offenders that now have felonies and prison sentences on their records, which further hinders their ability to find a good job once they are out.

[EeePee]

King Cobra yo.

[ROWDY RACING]

Google image Santa Clause weiner

[EeePee]

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[The Violator]

Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude

Overtime? They don't even like hiring full time. Of everyone in the US on the food stamp program, 20% work at Walmart. Roughly $6b tax dollars a year go towards subsidizing their employees livelyhoods.

I have a question about your line of thinking. You seem to blame Walmart for all the issues here in the United States. Lots of quotes about how they have the most employees on welfare, the most who get food stamps.


Let me answer that for you.

Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude

The largest civilian employer in the US is Walmart.

So by your fact Walart IS the largest employer in the US wouldn't it make the most sense they have the most white people, the most black people, the most poor people......and wait for it

Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude

Last I checked, all of the Waltons were in the top 10 of the Fortune 500.

and a lot of rich people involved there.

[ROWDY RACING]

John boy was a good Walton.

[Duuuuuuuude]

Originally Posted by The Violator

I have a question about your line of thinking. You seem to blame Walmart for all the issues here in the United States. Lots of quotes about how they have the most employees on welfare, the most who get food stamps.


Let me answer that for you.






So by your fact Walart IS the largest employer in the US wouldn't it make the most sense they have the most white people, the most black people, the most poor people......and wait for it






and a lot of rich people involved there.

Obviously there will be a large amount just because of the sheer numbers of employees they have, but it is a disproportionate percentage when compare to other retail stores.

You don't need very many wealthy people involved when you're talking about wealth at that level. The only people that have seen continual growth in income over the last few decades are those that were already wealthy.

[67mustang]

Hell yeah this country has it bad. The sense of entitlement. The laziness. Low expectations. No work ethics. No values. No vision. If you want a better job that pays more.....then go out and get the damn thing. I promise you it will require more effort than a low paying one.

Minimum wage isnt supposed to raise a family on...nor is it there so an individual could achieve their dreams. Minimum wage is a young persons game. If you are 30+ still making minimum wage...its noones fault but your own. You either didnt take your future seriously (even though schools and teachers and strong families insist on getting ones education) My family is the poster family for the economic benefits of education. And Im the only one in my family that doesnt have a college degree. I was a sharp student in school. My mother was a respected teacher...therefore I respected my teachers until about 15. All those kids that thought school was a big joke...well they are adults now and are doing cashier work...some are bouncing from fast food place to walmart and then back. You get out of life what you put in.

When I was in my early 20s I worked doing oil changes at a crappy oil change spot. I would take home between 190 and 225 per week. I would have money missing from my check. I could not get any more hours. I would have to choose between food and gas (at 36mpg too). One day I had a blowout driving to work. I had 35.00 to my name. A used tire is 25.00. How would I survive till payday?

You know what I did? I didnt go to work. I went and bought a used tire. I drove to a Midas near my cabin and applied for a job there. I started the next day at 8/hr. I worked 60 hour weeks. I worked really hard and fast. Not because I wanted to...but because thats how my father taught me to get it done. Within a month I was the top supervisor/service writer making 12/hr and doing 70 hr weeks. Broke sales records. Top midas franchise in Texas. I had multiple job offers. I have since moved on from that Midas opportunity to start a medical cannabis company that was licensed in 2010. Its def worth noting that I met my wife at that Midas.

I dont know if I would be where I am today if it wasnt for that blown out tire and the choices I made that day. Its all about the CHOICES people make. Many people lack the fortitude to make things happen for themselves. Dont blame minimum wage. I didnt blame minimum wage when I was completely broke. If people spent half the time trying to better themselves as they do whining about their situation....they would have a better job.

What about all those job fairs in the Dakotas where thousands were hired on the spot? They were good paying jobs. Noone wanted em cause theyd have to boo hoo and relocate. My father relocated our family 1000miles for a better opportunity. Dont tell me that Minimum Wage is holding people down. I dont buy that.