Is our President for real????

[Ditchrat]

Originally Posted by JSterrett

It seems funny to me, that multiple people on the anti-Trump side have asked for specific examples of the "great things" Trump is supposedly doing, and the responses pretty much seem to be "he's not Hillary"

Maybe I'm missing things, but so far all I've seen him do is tear things down. Where are these amazing things he's creating?

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

here you go.

• Almost 4 million jobs created since election.
• More Americans are now employed than ever recorded before in our history.
• We have created more than 400,000 manufacturing jobs since my election.
• Manufacturing jobs growing at the fastest rate in more than THREE DECADES.
• Economic growth last quarter hit 4.2 percent.
• New unemployment claims recently hit a 49-year low.
• Median household income has hit highest level ever recorded.
• African-American unemployment has recently achieved the lowest rate ever recorded.
• Hispanic-American unemployment is at the lowest rate ever recorded.
• Asian-American unemployment recently achieved the lowest rate ever recorded.
• Women’s unemployment recently reached the lowest rate in 65 years.
• Youth unemployment has recently hit the lowest rate in nearly half a century.
• Lowest unemployment rate ever recorded for Americans without a high school diploma.
• Under my Administration, veterans’ unemployment recently reached its lowest rate in nearly 20 years.
• Almost 3.9 million Americans have been lifted off food stamps since the election.
• The Pledge to America’s Workers has resulted in employers committing to train more than 4 million Americans. We are committed to VOCATIONAL education.
• 95 percent of U.S. manufacturers are optimistic about the future—the highest ever.
• Retail sales surged last month, up another 6 percent over last year.
• Signed the biggest package of tax cuts and reforms in history. After tax cuts, over $300 billion poured back in to the U.S. in the first quarter alone.
• As a result of our tax bill, small businesses will have the lowest top marginal tax rate in more than 80 years.
• Helped win U.S. bid for the 2028 Summer Olympics in Los Angeles.
• Helped win U.S.-Mexico-Canada’s united bid for 2026 World Cup.
• Opened ANWR and approved Keystone XL and Dakota Access Pipelines.
• Record number of regulations eliminated.
• Enacted regulatory relief for community banks and credit unions.
• Obamacare individual mandate penalty GONE.
• My Administration is providing more affordable healthcare options for Americans through association health plans and short-term duration plans.
• Last month, the FDA approved more affordable generic drugs than ever before in history. And thanks to our efforts, many drug companies are freezing or reversing planned price increases.
• We reformed the Medicare program to stop hospitals from overcharging low-income seniors on their drugs—saving seniors hundreds of millions of dollars this year alone.
• Signed Right-To-Try legislation.
• Secured $6 billion in NEW funding to fight the opioid epidemic.
• We have reduced high-dose opioid prescriptions by 16 percent during my first year in office.
• Signed VA Choice Act and VA Accountability Act, expanded VA telehealth services, walk-in-clinics, and same-day urgent primary and mental health care.
• Increased our coal exports by 60 percent; U.S. oil production recently reached all-time high.
• United States is a net natural gas exporter for the first time since 1957.
• Withdrew the United States from the job-killing Paris Climate Accord.
• Cancelled the illegal, anti-coal, so-called Clean Power Plan.
• Secured record $700 billion in military funding; $716 billion next year.
• NATO allies are spending $69 billion more on defense since 2016.
• Process has begun to make the Space Force the 6th branch of the Armed Forces.
• Confirmed more circuit court judges than any other new administration.
• Confirmed Supreme Court Justice Neil Gorsuch and nominated Judge Brett Kavanaugh.
• Withdrew from the horrible, one-sided Iran Deal.
• Moved U.S. Embassy to Jerusalem.
• Protecting Americans from terrorists with the Travel Ban, upheld by Supreme Court.
• Issued Executive Order to keep open Guantanamo Bay.
• Concluded a historic U.S.-Mexico Trade Deal to replace NAFTA. And negotiations with Canada are underway as we speak.
• Reached a breakthrough agreement with the E.U. to increase U.S. exports.
• Imposed tariffs on foreign steel and aluminum to protect our national security.
• Imposed tariffs on China in response to China’s forced technology transfer, intellectual property theft, and their chronically abusive trade practices.
• Net exports are on track to increase by $59 billion this year.
• Improved vetting and screening for refugees, and switched focus to overseas resettlement.

[CREEPERBOB]

/\ /\.
And it's definitely NOT Hillary .
Or Bernie, Waters, Booker or any other socialist

[Ditchrat]

Originally Posted by CREEPERBOB

/\ /\.
And it's definitely NOT Hillary .

This whole liberal shyte is getting out of hand. Liberals are the f#$%ing scum of the earth, period. I just can't not understand why Democrats, allow this small very vocal minority take control of their party, of their platform and their lives.


F%^&ing seriously, Rudolph the Raindeer is sexist, racist and homophobic? No you idiots it is a story designed to teach children a lifes lesson about why you shouldnt judge people on how they look. Of course it is going to have negative elements, otherwise how to do illustrate the positive ending.



Don't for get Charlie Brown is a racist now, too. Give me a break.


Lets not even talk about that idiot socialist darling who can't even pass a 4th grade civics class.

[JSterrett]

Originally Posted by 83trekker83

How about this?

"China has agreed to reclassify fentanyl as a "controlled substance," in what the White House is calling a "wonderful humanitarian gesture" after the much-anticipated talks Saturday between US President Donald Trump and Chinese President Xi Jinping in Buenos Aires, Argentina.

In a statement, China's Foreign Ministry said China has "decided to schedule the entire category of fentanyl-type substances as controlled substances, and start the process of revising relevant laws and regulations."
China and the United States have "agreed to take active measures to strengthen cooperation on law enforcement and narcotics control," including the control of fentanyl-type substances, it said."

This is major, and for f*ck sakes i copied the above from no other than our friends at CNN!

This is major that sh*t is killing so many people everyday espcially in Vancouver and Toronto here in Canada.

I would consider this freaking Huge and good job Mr Trump #MAGA

I think we disagree on the "hugeness" of this, but I agree it's a positive step. For me, "huge" would be fixing the underlying problems that are getting all these people hooked on shit like this to begin with.

[JSterrett]

Originally Posted by JatoTheRipper

Are you kidding? Reform is goddamn paperwork. You have to enforce your laws. We are at the enforcing stage because illegals don't give a **** about our laws.

We have handled it humanely. The problem is we have been too humane on these intruders. If somebody breaks into your house are you going to treat them humanely? We should treat people that intrude into this country the same way. A 25 cent bullet is a cheap way to enforce our laws as well as reform illegals. I'm pretty sure that killing people on the spot when they break into this country would be reform, enforcement and a deterrent. But we can't do that "because feels!" When did men start becoming ruled by "feelings?"

Because of people like you were are forced to treat criminals humanely. Criminals should be treated like criminals.

I'm guessing you are an anti-2A guy as well. Insisting we add more gun laws is liken to reforming immigration. Criminals don't follow the laws so it only hurts law abiding citizens in the end.

Yeah, sorry, I'm never gonna be on board with murdering people for trying to come to this country.

By "reform", I mean fix the current system. If we want people to follow our rules, we should probably try to make that possible. There are about 750,000 immigration cases in the backlog, but we have less than 400 judges assigned to immigration courts...

Immigration Court Backlog Tool: Pending Cases and Length of Wait in Immigration Courts

And that's a hell of an assuption about my stance on the 2nd Amendment. I mean, I could assume you're a gun-toting, redneck, racist asshat, but I don't do that shit because people rarely fit into the neat little categories we want them to...

Iraq 2003 (I'm the one in the sunglasses)

[JatoTheRipper]

Originally Posted by JSterrett

Yeah, sorry, I'm never gonna be on board with murdering people for trying to come to this country.

By "reform", I mean fix the current system. If we want people to follow our rules, we should probably try to make that possible. There are about 750,000 immigration cases in the backlog, but we have less than 400 judges assigned to immigration courts...

Immigration Court Backlog Tool: Pending Cases and Length of Wait in Immigration Courts

And that's a hell of an assuption about my stance on the 2nd Amendment. I mean, I could assume you're a gun-toting, redneck, racist asshat, but I don't do that shit because people rarely fit into the neat little categories we want them to...

Iraq 2003 (I'm the one in the sunglasses)

I don't know that it's murder. I mean should veterans be charged for murder when killing somebody in battle? Nope. And make no mistake about it - this mass illegal immigration is an attack on our country. It's a war that we need to fight aggressively.

400 judges is a lot of judges and a lot of tax money. I'd say for too much tax money. So immigrants have to wait - big deal. That's not a bad thing. I don't understand why people act like immigration should be easy. It shouldn't be. Try immigrating into other countries and tell me how that works out for you. In some countries it's virtually impossible and for good reason.

It's common sense. You can't continue to let unskilled, poor people into this country and expect it to be sustainable. Somebody is going to have to pay for the people that come here and leech off of the system. We have enough citizens that are leeches, which is an entirely different topic, but why would we let even more people come in and spend our tax money? It's stupid.
Illegals can use our emergency rooms and never have to pay. And people that come here legally can suck from welfare. Who do you think that affects? All of us that work hard. To allow that shit is just plain stupidity.

I'm 100% for legal immigration when we limit it to people that are going to come here and contribute and only after they pass extensive background checks.

Very valid point about my assumption. But being in the military also says nothing about your stance on the 2A. There are veterans that hate guns and want them banned.

[JSterrett]

Originally Posted by JatoTheRipper

I don't know that it's murder. I mean should veterans be charged for murder when killing somebody in battle? Nope. And make no mistake about it - this mass illegal immigration is an attack on our country. It's a war that we need to fight aggressively.

Generally, yeah, if they're unarmed you will be.

Originally Posted by JatoTheRipper

400 judges is a lot of judges and a lot of tax money. I'd say for too much tax money. So immigrants have to wait - big deal. That's not a bad thing. I don't understand why people act like immigration should be easy. It shouldn't be. Try immigrating into other countries and tell me how that works out for you. In some countries it's virtually impossible and for good reason.

I never said I thought it should be easy. I just think we should make sure the system is functioning properly. This backlog causes massive errors, including deporting people who are actually citizens. Immigration judges can actually be fired for not meeting quotas...

Originally Posted by JatoTheRipper

It's common sense. You can't continue to let unskilled, poor people into this country and expect it to be sustainable. Somebody is going to have to pay for the people that come here and leech off of the system. We have enough citizens that are leeches, which is an entirely different topic, but why would we let even more people come in and spend our tax money? It's stupid. Illegals can use our emergency rooms and never have to pay. And people that come here legally can suck from welfare. Who do you think that affects? All of us that work hard. To allow that shit is just plain stupidity.

There's a lot of unskilled, low-paying jobs out there that our entitled fellow citizens won't do. And I would think if they're legal, they're a lot more likely to contribute to the system.

Originally Posted by JatoTheRipper

I'm 100% for legal immigration when we limit it to people that are going to come here and contribute and only after they pass extensive background checks.

I mostly agree here.

Originally Posted by JatoTheRipper

Very valid point about my assumption. But being in the military also says nothing about your stance on the 2A. There are veterans that hate guns and want them banned.

True. I think children are dying in schools and something needs to change. The best course would be to deal with the underlying mental-health issues, but I'm not sure how we do that without better access to healthcare....

[CODYBOY]

Originally Posted by WHITE-TRASH

Humanely? So what is happening that is inhumane?

I don't think the tactic of taking children from their parents, putting them in cage like enclosures was a good thing! And then we decide maybe it isn't a good idea we don't even have a tracking system to reunite them!!! And please just take a minute to think about this from kids perspective! After all they are being used by both sides as bargaining points. Just Saying.
Ernie

[WHITE-TRASH]

Originally Posted by CODYBOY

I don't think the tactic of taking children from their parents, putting them in cage like enclosures was a good thing! And then we decide maybe it isn't a good idea we don't even have a tracking system to reunite them!!! And please just take a minute to think about this from kids perspective! After all they are being used by both sides as bargaining points. Just Saying.
Ernie

Don't want to be separated from your children while being detained for breaking the law? Then don't break the law. Such a simple concept even an uneducated invader can understand but chooses to ignore it.

This policy has been in place for many years but now that trump is president its s problem


Even the New York times has a clear view on it which is amazing to me.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&sour...=1543885291024

[JatoTheRipper]

Originally Posted by JSterrett

Generally, yeah, if they're unarmed you will be.

True. I'm not advocating shoot everybody the first time they set foot onto the US illegally. But repeat offenders have to be dealt with somehow. We can't just let it go.

Originally Posted by JSterrett

I never said I thought it should be easy. I just think we should make sure the system is functioning properly. This backlog causes massive errors, including deporting people who are actually citizens. Immigration judges can actually be fired for not meeting quotas...

There are plenty of areas where the government isn't working properly. How about we start with the areas that affect tax paying citizens?

Originally Posted by JSterrett

There's a lot of unskilled, low-paying jobs out there that our entitled fellow citizens won't do. And I would think if they're legal, they're a lot more likely to contribute to the system.

I don't necessarily believe that to be true unless we allow people to live off of the system which we do, sadly. But there are plenty of people out there looking for jobs that can't find them - former addicts, criminals trying to change their lives, etc. I hate when people say nobody else would do those jobs.

Originally Posted by JSterrett

True. I think children are dying in schools and something needs to change. The best course would be to deal with the underlying mental-health issues, but I'm not sure how we do that without better access to healthcare....

Guns used to go to school and shootings rarely happened. Guns didn't change. The people changed as you seem to indicate. But everybody wants to blame it on mental health and I don't think that's always the case. Children being raised without discipline and consequences is probably a large and unstudied part of it.

Originally Posted by CODYBOY

I don't think the tactic of taking children from their parents, putting them in cage like enclosures was a good thing! And then we decide maybe it isn't a good idea we don't even have a tracking system to reunite them!!! And please just take a minute to think about this from kids perspective! After all they are being used by both sides as bargaining points. Just Saying.
Ernie

Why do you side with the criminals instead of the government? First, taking children away from their parents didn't start with Trump. Most immigration stuff didn't start with Trump, but he gets blamed for it by the antagonistic media.

Secondly, do you protest putting criminals in jail? Those people are taken away from their children because they are criminals. Nobody seems to protest over that nor should they!

Illegals are criminals and nothing more. Their children suffer because of the actions of their parents. Place the blame where it lies.

[NoobCrawler]

Originally Posted by Ditchrat

This whole liberal shyte is getting out of hand. Liberals are the f#$%ing scum of the earth, period. I just can't not understand why Democrats, allow this small very vocal minority take control of their party, of their platform and their lives.


F%^&ing seriously, Rudolph the Raindeer is sexist, racist and homophobic? No you idiots it is a story designed to teach children a lifes lesson about why you shouldnt judge people on how they look. Of course it is going to have negative elements, otherwise how to do illustrate the positive ending.



Don't for get Charlie Brown is a racist now, too. Give me a break.


Lets not even talk about that idiot socialist darling who can't even pass a 4th grade civics class.

And the retardation that has poked its head out the last few years, another round of attacks on “Baby It’s Cold Outside.” Making it what they want it to be so they can be outraged by it(as they are with Rudolph). I just can’t understand that mindset for the life of me. Why waste whatever you have of a life & look for thngs it be offended by...it’s just so pathetic.

[NoobCrawler]

Originally Posted by CODYBOY

I don't think the tactic of taking children from their parents, putting them in cage like enclosures was a good thing! And then we decide maybe it isn't a good idea we don't even have a tracking system to reunite them!!! And please just take a minute to think about this from kids perspective! After all they are being used by both sides as bargaining points. Just Saying.
Ernie

But there’s also a very good reason we do that. Child trafficking. I’d rather sit & see kids have to deal with a little bit of unpleasantness that are those places rather than months, or years as child sex slaves.

[CODYBOY]

Why do you side with the criminals instead of the government? First, taking children away from their parents didn't start with Trump. Most immigration stuff didn't start with Trump, but he gets blamed for it by the antagonistic media.

Secondly, do you protest putting criminals in jail? Those people are taken away from their children because they are criminals. Nobody seems to protest over that nor should they!

Illegals are criminals and nothing more. Their children suffer because of the actions of their parents. Place the blame where it lies.[/QUOTE]

Were did I say I agree with what is going on with people coming into the country illegally? I didn't! Please don't put your words or thoughts into what I say Tim!!! And which president was it that removed children including 2 and 3 year old's from their parents and thought it was ok to traumatize them in this way? You are right, the parents are to blame for putting these kids in this situation, but IMO it doesn't make it right to handle it the way our government did. You know, you are well read, have some good points most of the time. And that is what this thread is suppose to be about, sharing points of view and facts. No sides, just a bunch of us helping each other understand what we think is happening. I just don't understand why you have to be sooooo pointed and shout everything you have to offer! At least that is how it comes across to me?


Ernie

[CODYBOY]

Originally Posted by JatoTheRipper

True. I'm not advocating shoot everybody the first time they set foot onto the US illegally. But repeat offenders have to be dealt with somehow. We can't just let it go.



There are plenty of areas where the government isn't working properly. How about we start with the areas that affect tax paying citizens?



I don't necessarily believe that to be true unless we allow people to live off of the system which we do, sadly. But there are plenty of people out there looking for jobs that can't find them - former addicts, criminals trying to change their lives, etc. I hate when people say nobody else would do those jobs.



Guns used to go to school and shootings rarely happened. Guns didn't change. The people changed as you seem to indicate. But everybody wants to blame it on mental health and I don't think that's always the case. Children being raised without discipline and consequences is probably a large and unstudied part of it.




Why do you side with the criminals instead of the government? First, taking children away from their parents didn't start with Trump. Most immigration stuff didn't start with Trump, but he gets blamed for it by the antagonistic media.

Secondly, do you protest putting criminals in jail? Those people are taken away from their children because they are criminals. Nobody seems to protest over that nor should they!

Illegals are criminals and nothing more. Their children suffer because of the actions of their parents. Place the blame where it lies.

Originally Posted by NoobCrawler

But there’s also a very good reason we do that. Child trafficking. I’d rather sit & see kids have to deal with a little bit of unpleasantness that are those places rather than months, or years as child sex slaves.

IMO, your lumping, two very separate issues both of which are very terrible black strikes against our world humanity!
Ernie

[JatoTheRipper]

Originally Posted by CODYBOY

Were did I say I agree with what is going on with people coming into the country illegally? I didn't! Please don't put your words or thoughts into what I say Tim!!! And which president was it that removed children including 2 and 3 year old's from their parents and thought it was ok to traumatize them in this way? You are right, the parents are to blame for putting these kids in this situation, but IMO it doesn't make it right to handle it the way our government did. You know, you are well read, have some good points most of the time. And that is what this thread is suppose to be about, sharing points of view and facts. No sides, just a bunch of us helping each other understand what we think is happening. I just don't understand why you have to be sooooo pointed and shout everything you have to offer! At least that is how it comes across to me?


Ernie

I didn't say you agree with illegal immigration. I simply meant that when you lambaste the government for taking children away from their criminal, illegal parents you are siding with those criminals.

I'll go back to my point about children of prisoners. Are the children put first when their parents are put in jail? Are the children put first when their mother or father is sentenced to life or even put to death? Nope. Nor should they be. The safety of our country should be put first. So why is illegal immigration any different simply because of the children?

And I'll also argue that the children might be better off when being taken away from their "parents". I say that because we don't know if the children being smuggled across the boarder are really with their parents or if they are just with sex traffickers. That's how little we know about these illegals.

I think US citizens forget that we have people rushing our boarder from one of the most corrupt countries in the world. Mexico is a giant cesspool of drug cartels. Even their government can't be trusted and that's been proven throughout history. Sadly, the people in Mexico that want to make a change and stop the cartels usually end up dead. But knowing all this, I don't want these people to slip into our country without knowing everything about their past and their intentions. That, alone, is reason why illegal immigration is terrible.

I'm passionate about this topic, but I'm not shouting anything. Debates like this are to state your point and, hopefully, get people to at least thing about something different than their own views. That doesn't mean I won't call bullshit when I believe I am seeing it.

[CODYBOY]

Originally Posted by JatoTheRipper

I didn't say you agree with illegal immigration. I simply meant that when you lambaste the government for taking children away from their criminal, illegal parents you are siding with those criminals.

I'll go back to my point about children of prisoners. Are the children put first when their parents are put in jail? Are the children put first when their mother or father is sentenced to life or even put to death? Nope. Nor should they be. The safety of our country should be put first. So why is illegal immigration any different simply because of the children?

And I'll also argue that the children might be better off when being taken away from their "parents". I say that because we don't know if the children being smuggled across the boarder are really with their parents or if they are just with sex traffickers. That's how little we know about these illegals.

I think US citizens forget that we have people rushing our boarder from one of the most corrupt countries in the world. Mexico is a giant cesspool of drug cartels. Even their government can't be trusted and that's been proven throughout history. Sadly, the people in Mexico that want to make a change and stop the cartels usually end up dead. But knowing all this, I don't want these people to slip into our country without knowing everything about their past and their intentions. That, alone, is reason why illegal immigration is terrible.

I'm passionate about this topic, but I'm not shouting anything. Debates like this are to state your point and, hopefully, get people to at least thing about something different than their own views. That doesn't mean I won't call bullshit when I believe I am seeing it.

I agree with all the above! We have to put a stop to the illegals crossing the border, but I still think in most cases the children are the ones suffering the most through this whole process.
Having said that I can see where some of them may be better off under our protection. At 70 I guess I have mellowed out a lot as far as attitude and compassion.
And I just wanted to ad that I have first hand knowledge of those that do cross the border legally through our government work program. You mentioned that they are taking jobs from our work force. I don't know if it is a east coast/west coast thing but here on the west coast they fill a need in the labor force. There are agricultural jobs that they will do and do well that most of our workers don't have the desire to even try. My son helps manage a reforestation company here in Oregon and the only way they can fill most all of their jobs is through that government program. They pay taxes, have medical coverage and contribute to our economy. Just a point I wanted to make, is not all of them are here to suck off our systems.
Ernie

[JSterrett]

Originally Posted by JatoTheRipper

True. I'm not advocating shoot everybody the first time they set foot onto the US illegally. But repeat offenders have to be dealt with somehow. We can't just let it go.

There are plenty of areas where the government isn't working properly. How about we start with the areas that affect tax paying citizens?

I just think if we're going to insist they use the systems that are in place, we should make sure they are functioning adequately, especially if you want to make the penalty for multiple offenders death... Some of those 750,000 cases, and some people who end up deported, are actually citizens...

Originally Posted by JatoTheRipper

I don't necessarily believe that to be true unless we allow people to live off of the system which we do, sadly. But there are plenty of people out there looking for jobs that can't find them - former addicts, criminals trying to change their lives, etc. I hate when people say nobody else would do those jobs.

There was at least 1 group (can't remember if it was the gov't or a university) that sponsored a program to test this. The farms were only allowed to hire regular full-citizen workers. They were even subsidized by the program so they could offer reasonable (for the area) wages. Even with decent wages everyone had bailed on the jobs within weeks and they had to go back to migrant labor.

Originally Posted by JatoTheRipper

Guns used to go to school and shootings rarely happened. Guns didn't change. The people changed as you seem to indicate. But everybody wants to blame it on mental health and I don't think that's always the case. Children being raised without discipline and consequences is probably a large and unstudied part of it.

For me, anyone who kills children has to have some sort of mental issue. That is not normal. Whether they can be helped or not is definitely going to depend on what is wrong with them.

I do agree that the lack of accountability for children these days is a significant issue. It makes it harder on my wife and I as parents when our children see their friends getting away with behavior that we punish.

[JatoTheRipper]

Originally Posted by CODYBOY

I agree with all the above! We have to put a stop to the illegals crossing the border, but I still think in most cases the children are the ones suffering the most through this whole process.
Having said that I can see where some of them may be better off under our protection. At 70 I guess I have mellowed out a lot as far as attitude and compassion.
And I just wanted to ad that I have first hand knowledge of those that do cross the border legally through our government work program. You mentioned that they are taking jobs from our work force. I don't know if it is a east coast/west coast thing but here on the west coast they fill a need in the labor force. There are agricultural jobs that they will do and do well that most of our workers don't have the desire to even try. My son helps manage a reforestation company here in Oregon and the only way they can fill most all of their jobs is through that government program. They pay taxes, have medical coverage and contribute to our economy. Just a point I wanted to make, is not all of them are here to suck off our systems.
Ernie

Like I said, I'm 100% for legal immigration when people come here to contribute. Illegal immigration has many risks and the first is safety.

Without those work programs the jobs would be filled. The companies might have to pay more, but they would surely be filled.

Originally Posted by JSterrett

I just think if we're going to insist they use the systems that are in place, we should make sure they are functioning adequately, especially if you want to make the penalty for multiple offenders death... Some of those 750,000 cases, and some people who end up deported, are actually citizens...

Like I said, there is so much of the government that does't work well. Sure, we should fix the problems, but it shouldn't be with the immigration systems.

That's like inviting more people over to your house to hangout while you're trying to clean or do renovations. It doesn't make any sense.

Originally Posted by JSterrett

There was at least 1 group (can't remember if it was the gov't or a university) that sponsored a program to test this. The farms were only allowed to hire regular full-citizen workers. They were even subsidized by the program so they could offer reasonable (for the area) wages. Even with decent wages everyone had bailed on the jobs within weeks and they had to go back to migrant labor.

One study, alone, means very little. As I said above, the jobs would surely be filled. If we stopped letting able bodied people live off of welfare and forced them to find jobs we certainly wouldn't need the help of illegals.

Originally Posted by JSterrett

For me, anyone who kills children has to have some sort of mental issue. That is not normal. Whether they can be helped or not is definitely going to depend on what is wrong with them.

I do agree that the lack of accountability for children these days is a significant issue. It makes it harder on my wife and I as parents when our children see their friends getting away with behavior that we punish.[/QUOTE]

I could never kill a child, or anybody else for that matter, and I agree that it seems only a mental illness should be able to cause one to do it. But is it only mental illness that causes one to kill? Infantcide isn't uncommon in history. And animals in nature, such as lions, kill the offspring of their rivals. Why did infantcide go away? Was it because our ancestors were mentally ill and evolution "cured" them? I doubt it. So was it because society forced us to become civilized and go against our primal urges? And what if primal urges are starting to come back? I know, it's an odd thought, but I don't think mental illness alone is causing the rise in killings.

[CODYBOY]

I disagree with the thought that those jobs would be filled with different wages. Most of the contracts that my son administers are government contracts that require "Davis Bacon" wages and they still can't keep those jobs filled with our regular work force.

I think part of the problem is something that you touched on. The generations coming up now are either over educated or raised by the welfare type systems and won't settle for laborer jobs or don't know how to work to support them selves (Lazy)!
Today the new welfare is to claim that you are disabled. Don't get me wrong, I know there are vets and other people that are deserving of the help they get. I have family members that went from doctor to doctor until they found one that would sign off on them being disable, and until she passed last year lived off my mom and the system for the last 15 years. So I know first hand about people living off the system and I'm sure as discussed and upset as you about it.
Ernie

[JSterrett]

Originally Posted by JatoTheRipper

One study, alone, means very little. As I said above, the jobs would surely be filled. If we stopped letting able bodied people live off of welfare and forced them to find jobs we certainly wouldn't need the help of illegals.

This doesn't address the welfare dependancy you're referring to, but lack of immigrant labor is killing jobs...

https://www.latimes.com/projects/la-...s-immigration/