RCCrawler Forums

Charlie · 10-05-2011, 07:01 PM

Polls are great, but only take a picture of those active posting users. From my experience, most of the users of a forum, are readers only. Or they post with thier buddies and don't use the features of the forum.

I have never denied the need for high voltage stuff, just can't convince our engineers you guys are right! They beleive me now, and we'll have more stuff coming down the pipeline.

I'll get more vids tomorrow with more specifics on the stall. But no, it doesn't stall easy. You roll into a bit more throttle and it powers through. The system itself, will NOT, cog, stall or delay like what every mysterious BL systems do that. I've never had that problem with anything sensored. So I think a lot of that perception, is from "bad" systems, or sensorless systems. I've never had a properly operating sensored system cog even a little.

Now, stalling it hard enough to "Sap" the battery voltage and cause a low voltage drop out, that's different. Not a cog, just the ESC pumping the power, and the battery not being able to keep up. Simple yeah?

In a stall, or bind, something in the drive train Breaks if your battery is good. If the battery is not good, it saps out and you get a Low Voltage drop out from the RX first. The ESC itself, will run down to "nothing". It's the RX and the Servo's that die first.

This is "nothing at all" like a sensorless system.

Thanks for the input guys.
See You Tomorrow!

Duuuuuuuude · 10-05-2011, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlie

Polls are great, but only take a picture of those active posting users. From my experience, most of the users of a forum, are readers only. Or they post with thier buddies and don't use the features of the forum.

Very true, but when 80%+ of those responding are running 3s, thats gotta say something. That is unless you think there is some conspiracy or bias against Novaks 2s frame of mind that is skewing the poll...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlie

I'll get more vids tomorrow with more specifics on the stall. But no, it doesn't stall easy. You roll into a bit more throttle and it powers through. The system itself, will NOT, cog, stall or delay like what every mysterious BL systems do that.

Stalling has always been the major turnoff for me with brushless systems. I started with brushless when I got my comp crawler and very quickly went back to brushed.

Charlie · 10-05-2011, 07:24 PM

Slow stall no stall? - YouTube

I couldn't wait. Here it is trying to move my bench.

It sounds much worse in person then in the video. Truck is all metal Tranny, MIP, HD F/R rear gears, Under driven in the back.

13.5 crawling motor

54 tooth 32pitch Spur (From Traxxas)
10 tooth Pinion.

This is almost the same as an 87 and a 16 in case you were wondering.

Dude: Thanks for the Poll, helps for sure. But if I took the same poll from the customers that call me on the phone, or don't post here and send an email, the results would be the opposite. It's all perspective. I have no doubt, lots of folks use what ever they see fit for their application. The "you don't know" if you don't use 3S is just a bit rough for me.

Charlie · 10-07-2011, 11:38 AM

Slow bash. - YouTube

Slow jam - YouTube

Slow woops - YouTube

Meatwad · 10-07-2011, 02:49 PM

Charlie,

It's good to have some sort of novak social media person offering advice and showing short vids of new products in action. It does go a long way. But limiting to a certain voltage is a thing of the past, especially when comparing to current brushed and brushless offerings. More volts do generally pull less amps, and some people just wanna one up their buddy

The new esc seems to have corrected some of what was wrong before functionality-wise, judging from your vids. Reliability will tell in time.

Duuuuuuuude · 10-07-2011, 05:25 PM

Ha! Now we know why you have an all metal geartrain.

Charlie-III · 10-07-2011, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude

Ha! Now we know why you have an all metal geartrain.

Cheaper than buying lots of replacement plastic gears.

TOYUTAH · 10-08-2011, 02:39 PM

ok so my question is how well would this work in my losi comp?? can I turn stuff off for it to work with the worm gears?

Charlie-III · 10-08-2011, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TOYUTAH

ok so my question is how well would this work in my losi comp?? can I turn stuff off for it to work with the worm gears?

Ummmm....turn off what??

Charlie · 10-10-2011, 11:53 AM

For the Worm Drive setups, you would very simply "lower" the drag brake setting to #1. That will turn off the powered drag brakes but still operate as a crawling ESC.

tech@teamnovak.com

docsrcrepair · 10-12-2011, 08:42 AM

I have had novak products for years now(still have original roosters,super roosters and super duty's) and they are all still in use without any problems

BUT!!! (there is always one of these in a forum) Ever since the whole traxxas esc issue in early emaxx's I have been reluctant to buy anything. I thought ok novak straightened that mess up out. Then I went and bought 3 of the novak HV systems,4.5 and 5.5 and 6.5...that was the worst spending of $600+ ever in my life(other than the tamiya juggernaut 1)
I had nothing but glitching,cogging,smoking esc's... I spend a fortune in gears, tried different radio's,recievers,bec's...etc etc.. I sent them in, got them warrantied and sold them except one more that I was considering trading in for one of the timbuk2's for my scaler.
I did buy the novak 3S system and have only run my LCC a couple times with it in it. BUT I was very very careful on choosing my gearing,and everytime I pull the trigger I wonder if its gonna smoke.

I want to get one of these and I think it would be perfect for a true scaler since I know how I drive and I would just tear up everything scale on the truck. But I want the runtime and speed that I would get out of a 21.5 on 2s. I, like alot of other people are very gun shy about another novak product, and everytime they turn around novak is coming out with a new model. Why not just call it the goat 2.1S? It would follow Novak's heritage on previous models??? Its not just you guys, traxxas/kyosho/hpi/losi are all killing the market... People dont like going out in June to buy the newest model to run for the summer and then before christmas a company comes out with the latest and greatest and only changed a thing or two and when you go to sell it the value is squat and you cant give it away.

I like many others sell our used stuff to fund our next purchase and when you throw $300-400 out the window it gets frustrating and keeps someone from buying anything in the future.
The public is tired of funding the companies R&D to later find out they threw away good money in tight times. Why doesnt companies rely on team drivers or pick up people who are willing to test items free of charge? I know everyone wants to get free stuff but make them liable for reporting and documentation to better your product? I mean a speedo can only cost you guys $30 to make(no need for boxes,stickers,foam padding,etc) It would get public opinions,ideas and real world testing.

Personally if I was the owner of novak I would look back at history and find out where my business went skewed and look at what changed and why it was changed.

This isnt rocket engineering its basic business checks and balances.

Doc

Charlie · 10-12-2011, 10:48 AM

Interesting, thanks for your perspective sir.

This thread has gotten completely off track. ;) That's okay though, this is why I love the internet.

Csuangka@teamnovak.com
Thanks,
Charlie

JPH Racing · 10-13-2011, 11:48 AM

Having run the BL Timbuk2 in my Wraith, I can tell you guys it kick-ass. The low end is awesome, the top end is killer, and everything in between works great. All on 2s. Faster, better, more drivable than most other guys 3s stuff ....

That being said, as a hobby shop guy, 75% of the guys getting into r/c crawlers are buying Honcho or Wraith RTR's. They want an upgrade system that works with 7.2v and 7.4v batteries.

The other 25% of the crawler market, the high end guys, want 3s or 4s stuff. I think Novak will go for the larger market first (the one that's not on rccraweler.com, they are out running their trucks) and then come out with something for the rest ... Just a hunch!

P.S. It takes some balls to come on here as a MFG, get bashed, get great "input", the 5 or 10 year old stories about some blown out esc ... and still hang out and offer to help. Charlie, thanks for all the tips and help, it's appreciated more than you know!

Before you guys flame me up, there is some great feedback here, interesting points of view and a lot to be learned on how some of the public views the company. I'll bet ALL this is being brought back to meetings at Novak ... But, some of you guys come across like whining, long winded, DB's ... Just my opinion, and I guess this P.S. comes across just like that!

DeweyCJ5 · 10-14-2011, 09:07 PM

love my goat 2s but if i could trade it in on the new system...

Duuuuuuuude · 10-15-2011, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPH Racing

That being said, as a hobby shop guy, 75% of the guys getting into r/c crawlers are buying Honcho or Wraith RTR's. They want an upgrade system that works with 7.2v and 7.4v batteries.

The other 25% of the crawler market, the high end guys, want 3s or 4s stuff. I think Novak will go for the larger market first (the one that's not on rccraweler.com, they are out running their trucks) and then come out with something for the rest ... Just a hunch!

I'm going to agree with your first statement, because when I first got into crawlers I didn't think too much about voltage. As long as I could run my stick packs I was happy. Anyone who comes from a spec racing background would feel the same as they are all limited in the power they can use. Running more than 2s would not even occur to them.

Then I learned about lipos and immediately procured an esc that would let me move beyond 7.2v.

And then there is the fact that most hobby shops are worthless when it comes to crawlers. They either don't know or don't care about that niche of the industry. If it doesn't go fast it doesn't matter. If someone comes in for a crawler they get sold an rtr and a stick pack.

I'm going to disagree with your second statement. Just about everyone who has spent any time around here has stepped up to 3s at some point.

This is just a slice of the pie, but I think it's pretty telling.

Poll: What lipo packs do you run?

EGRESSor · 11-01-2011, 05:50 AM

i will try it in my xr10 next time

notproyet · 11-18-2011, 06:15 PM

What timbuk2 setup would you recommend for a scx10 honcho that will be for trail and rock crawling? motor wind? Thanks

ClassicGMJunkie · 11-18-2011, 06:47 PM

my Timbuk 2 just came in Charlie, thanks a ton! Its very very small compared to my Sidewinder, and the wiring is really clean. I can't wait to give it a go, the only thing I am worried about is having to run 2s and not see the usual 9 volts to my servo I am used to.

Maddog Madigan · 11-19-2011, 09:31 PM

I've currently have the wraith 13.5 edition and really love it for crawling, plus it seemed much quieter than sct 3800kv system. I have some much into it, time and money. The crazy speed is not what I want anymore for this one, being all vp stuff. If you want to make it a rock racer then maybe other. Rock crawling for this system is thumbs up in my eyes. Just go on u tube and look for Mad wraith timbuk2...

ClassicGMJunkie · 11-20-2011, 06:29 PM

fitted my sportsman with the 13.5 and Timbuk 2, same gearing as before with 3s and 55 turn Novak brushed. OMG.

I set my epa's to 100%, programmed maximum drag/hold brake, upped the brake and throttle frequencies, and ran my unused 800mah 2s from my MRC that now uses 450mah's. Servo sees full battery voltage and the motor is much much faster and stronger with the BL system. glitched a little at full speed turning my servo, but added the capacitor in a sec and it cleared up. Very happy with this setup, its much smaller than most ESC's and my Futaba rx looks bigger setting next to it. I will post some pics after switching out to a different chassis.

Thanks again Charlie for getting it shipped out to me in time for comp day!

10-05-2011, 07:24 PM	#103
Charlie Rock Crawler Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Hobbywing Posts: 552	Slow stall no stall? - YouTube I couldn't wait. Here it is trying to move my bench. It sounds much worse in person then in the video. Truck is all metal Tranny, MIP, HD F/R rear gears, Under driven in the back. 13.5 crawling motor 54 tooth 32pitch Spur (From Traxxas) 10 tooth Pinion. This is almost the same as an 87 and a 16 in case you were wondering. Dude: Thanks for the Poll, helps for sure. But if I took the same poll from the customers that call me on the phone, or don't post here and send an email, the results would be the opposite. It's all perspective. I have no doubt, lots of folks use what ever they see fit for their application. The "you don't know" if you don't use 3S is just a bit rough for me. Last edited by Charlie; 10-05-2011 at 10:24 PM.

10-05-2011, 07:01 PM	#101
Charlie Rock Crawler Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Hobbywing Posts: 552	Polls are great, but only take a picture of those active posting users. From my experience, most of the users of a forum, are readers only. Or they post with thier buddies and don't use the features of the forum. I have never denied the need for high voltage stuff, just can't convince our engineers you guys are right! They beleive me now, and we'll have more stuff coming down the pipeline. I'll get more vids tomorrow with more specifics on the stall. But no, it doesn't stall easy. You roll into a bit more throttle and it powers through. The system itself, will NOT, cog, stall or delay like what every mysterious BL systems do that. I've never had that problem with anything sensored. So I think a lot of that perception, is from "bad" systems, or sensorless systems. I've never had a properly operating sensored system cog even a little. Now, stalling it hard enough to "Sap" the battery voltage and cause a low voltage drop out, that's different. Not a cog, just the ESC pumping the power, and the battery not being able to keep up. Simple yeah? In a stall, or bind, something in the drive train Breaks if your battery is good. If the battery is not good, it saps out and you get a Low Voltage drop out from the RX first. The ESC itself, will run down to "nothing". It's the RX and the Servo's that die first. This is "nothing at all" like a sensorless system. Thanks for the input guys. See You Tomorrow!

10-07-2011, 11:38 AM	#104
Charlie Rock Crawler Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Hobbywing Posts: 552	Slow bash. - YouTube Slow jam - YouTube Slow woops - YouTube

10-07-2011, 02:49 PM	#105
Meatwad I wanna be Dave Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Rancho Relaxo. California. USA. Earth. Posts: 3,292	Charlie, It's good to have some sort of novak social media person offering advice and showing short vids of new products in action. It does go a long way. But limiting to a certain voltage is a thing of the past, especially when comparing to current brushed and brushless offerings. More volts do generally pull less amps, and some people just wanna one up their buddy The new esc seems to have corrected some of what was wrong before functionality-wise, judging from your vids. Reliability will tell in time.

10-07-2011, 05:25 PM	#106
Duuuuuuuude Suck it up! Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Arkansas Posts: 11,652	Ha! Now we know why you have an all metal geartrain.

10-08-2011, 02:39 PM	#108
TOYUTAH Quarry Creeper Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: northern utah Posts: 479	ok so my question is how well would this work in my losi comp?? can I turn stuff off for it to work with the worm gears?

10-10-2011, 11:53 AM	#110
Charlie Rock Crawler Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Hobbywing Posts: 552	For the Worm Drive setups, you would very simply "lower" the drag brake setting to #1. That will turn off the powered drag brakes but still operate as a crawling ESC. tech@teamnovak.com

10-12-2011, 08:42 AM	#111
docsrcrepair Quarry Creeper Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Pontoon Beach Posts: 405	I have had novak products for years now(still have original roosters,super roosters and super duty's) and they are all still in use without any problems BUT!!! (there is always one of these in a forum) Ever since the whole traxxas esc issue in early emaxx's I have been reluctant to buy anything. I thought ok novak straightened that mess up out. Then I went and bought 3 of the novak HV systems,4.5 and 5.5 and 6.5...that was the worst spending of $600+ ever in my life(other than the tamiya juggernaut 1) I had nothing but glitching,cogging,smoking esc's... I spend a fortune in gears, tried different radio's,recievers,bec's...etc etc.. I sent them in, got them warrantied and sold them except one more that I was considering trading in for one of the timbuk2's for my scaler. I did buy the novak 3S system and have only run my LCC a couple times with it in it. BUT I was very very careful on choosing my gearing,and everytime I pull the trigger I wonder if its gonna smoke. I want to get one of these and I think it would be perfect for a true scaler since I know how I drive and I would just tear up everything scale on the truck. But I want the runtime and speed that I would get out of a 21.5 on 2s. I, like alot of other people are very gun shy about another novak product, and everytime they turn around novak is coming out with a new model. Why not just call it the goat 2.1S? It would follow Novak's heritage on previous models??? Its not just you guys, traxxas/kyosho/hpi/losi are all killing the market... People dont like going out in June to buy the newest model to run for the summer and then before christmas a company comes out with the latest and greatest and only changed a thing or two and when you go to sell it the value is squat and you cant give it away. I like many others sell our used stuff to fund our next purchase and when you throw $300-400 out the window it gets frustrating and keeps someone from buying anything in the future. The public is tired of funding the companies R&D to later find out they threw away good money in tight times. Why doesnt companies rely on team drivers or pick up people who are willing to test items free of charge? I know everyone wants to get free stuff but make them liable for reporting and documentation to better your product? I mean a speedo can only cost you guys $30 to make(no need for boxes,stickers,foam padding,etc) It would get public opinions,ideas and real world testing. Personally if I was the owner of novak I would look back at history and find out where my business went skewed and look at what changed and why it was changed. This isnt rocket engineering its basic business checks and balances. Doc

10-12-2011, 10:48 AM	#112
Charlie Rock Crawler Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Hobbywing Posts: 552	Interesting, thanks for your perspective sir. This thread has gotten completely off track. ;) That's okay though, this is why I love the internet. Csuangka@teamnovak.com Thanks, Charlie

10-13-2011, 11:48 AM	#113
JPH Racing RCC Addict Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Rohnert Park Posts: 1,093	Having run the BL Timbuk2 in my Wraith, I can tell you guys it kick-ass. The low end is awesome, the top end is killer, and everything in between works great. All on 2s. Faster, better, more drivable than most other guys 3s stuff .... That being said, as a hobby shop guy, 75% of the guys getting into r/c crawlers are buying Honcho or Wraith RTR's. They want an upgrade system that works with 7.2v and 7.4v batteries. The other 25% of the crawler market, the high end guys, want 3s or 4s stuff. I think Novak will go for the larger market first (the one that's not on rccraweler.com, they are out running their trucks) and then come out with something for the rest ... Just a hunch! P.S. It takes some balls to come on here as a MFG, get bashed, get great "input", the 5 or 10 year old stories about some blown out esc ... and still hang out and offer to help. Charlie, thanks for all the tips and help, it's appreciated more than you know! Before you guys flame me up, there is some great feedback here, interesting points of view and a lot to be learned on how some of the public views the company. I'll bet ALL this is being brought back to meetings at Novak ... But, some of you guys come across like whining, long winded, DB's ... Just my opinion, and I guess this P.S. comes across just like that!

10-14-2011, 09:07 PM	#114
DeweyCJ5 Rock Crawler Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy Posts: 901	love my goat 2s but if i could trade it in on the new system...

Sponsored Links

11-01-2011, 05:50 AM	#116
EGRESSor RCC Addict Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Germany north Posts: 1,669	i will try it in my xr10 next time

11-18-2011, 06:15 PM	#117
notproyet Newbie Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: mabel Posts: 39	What timbuk2 setup would you recommend for a scx10 honcho that will be for trail and rock crawling? motor wind? Thanks

11-18-2011, 06:47 PM	#118
ClassicGMJunkie Quarry Creeper Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Wheeling Posts: 454	my Timbuk 2 just came in Charlie, thanks a ton! Its very very small compared to my Sidewinder, and the wiring is really clean. I can't wait to give it a go, the only thing I am worried about is having to run 2s and not see the usual 9 volts to my servo I am used to.

11-19-2011, 09:31 PM	#119
Maddog Madigan RCC Addict Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: cold state Posts: 1,334	I've currently have the wraith 13.5 edition and really love it for crawling, plus it seemed much quieter than sct 3800kv system. I have some much into it, time and money. The crazy speed is not what I want anymore for this one, being all vp stuff. If you want to make it a rock racer then maybe other. Rock crawling for this system is thumbs up in my eyes. Just go on u tube and look for Mad wraith timbuk2...

11-20-2011, 06:29 PM	#120
ClassicGMJunkie Quarry Creeper Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Wheeling Posts: 454	fitted my sportsman with the 13.5 and Timbuk 2, same gearing as before with 3s and 55 turn Novak brushed. OMG. I set my epa's to 100%, programmed maximum drag/hold brake, upped the brake and throttle frequencies, and ran my unused 800mah 2s from my MRC that now uses 450mah's. Servo sees full battery voltage and the motor is much much faster and stronger with the BL system. glitched a little at full speed turning my servo, but added the capacitor in a sec and it cleared up. Very happy with this setup, its much smaller than most ESC's and my Futaba rx looks bigger setting next to it. I will post some pics after switching out to a different chassis. Thanks again Charlie for getting it shipped out to me in time for comp day!

RCCrawler Forums

Thread: Novak Timbuk2 Brushless Rock Crawling ESC!