Castle Creations New 1512 Sensored motors

[JatoTheRipper]

Originally Posted by JohnRobHolmes

Can't wait until my company can forget about customers! Boy, that will be the day! In the mean time I'll continue scraping along with outrageous profit margins that seem to only afford silly "customer service " and R&D. But I suppose I did finance myself a used car a few years ago, living pretty fancy with that 4 cylinder station wagon hauling my kids dontcha know. Might even get a few pairs of shoes this year.

clones are clones. They always have cheaper materials for that low price. Any company that gives a real go at engineering soon learns why the prices are where they are. Want a $80 4 pole brushless motor with support? I can make one, but it won't run as cool, it will fade more, it won't be waterproofed, the sensors will jitter at lower temps, materials will have half the temp rating, etc. Ive full assed enough motors, maybe it's time to sell some half ass motors like every other cheapie. All the loud folks don't seem to notice the difference anyway. Who needs Japanese laminations and bearings when the Chinese can make them for half price? They will even lie and call them Japanese if ya want!

Do you really consider your company to be in the same situation as Castle? As a current customer that purchased two of your motors I don't. If HH was a bakery you'd be one of those gourmet shops in a city charging $15 bucks for a cupcake whereas Castle would be Dunkin' Donuts. You're a small shop putting and emphasis on quality and tuning products for specific performance. Castle is mass producing products targeted at a much larger audience and putting out a quality product, but on a different level and a different price point. I assume you buy components in much smaller quantities than Castle. In that case it's not surprising your profit margins are much slimmer than Castle's.

Another thing to factor in is what you consider a crazy profit margin. Your opinion is probably different than mine.

Most people aren't going to notice minor differences in performance of lifespan or they are willing to accept slight reductions in either or both to get cost savings. That reason, I assume, is why you offer motors that aren't hand wound.

Clones are clones and always will be. The components are lower end and there is much less R&D expenses in a copied design. I'd never argue that fact. But clones are much cheaper and offer enough performance to make them a viable option to a lot of people.

And sure, you could use lower end components if you wanted. It's all about where you are trying to position your company and your products.

BTW I'm trying to purchase another motor from you. I'm just awaiting an email response from your customer service. I know you don't have the manpower that Castle does so I'm much more patient with response times.

[JohnRobHolmes]

Ahhh ya got me! I'm probably 50 or 100 times smaller. One main CS rep. A range of products that grow as we grow, so that we can start offering more affordable solutions. Holler if Erin doesn't get back timely. She does well, but is still new and learning how to pace her help.

[JatoTheRipper]

Originally Posted by JohnRobHolmes

Ahhh ya got me! I'm probably 50 or 100 times smaller. One main CS rep. A range of products that grow as we grow, so that we can start offering more affordable solutions. Holler if Erin doesn't get back timely. She does well, but is still new and learning how to pace her help.

Your CS has always been pretty responsive to me. I only email your company last week. If I don't get a response this week I'll let you know.

[LSXGMC]

I don't necessarily agree with clones, but I do see valid points on both sides of the fence. Some people are simply on a budget and buy whatever is cheap, clone or not. End of story.

However, at the end of the day, we wouldn't have clones without the original product being developed. This comes down to integrity and budget. I support Holmes Hobbies because he participates in forums such as this one, listening to customers, developing products based on their input and wants, and stands behind his products. That is worth something to me. If we don't buy his stuff, he is out of business, and we are stuck with the large companies. I support Castle as well, however I have a pretty good feeling that their profit margin is multiple times that of say HH.

It's the same story with the wheels issue. I really like VP's response to this in lowering the prices of these wheels (you can't tell me the clones had nothing to do with this). Makes someone like me able to buy a legitimate set from them.

[thumperc25]

Not to get off topic but I would like to talk about the castle motors! lol I was planning on the roc412 but have always been a castle fan know with these motors I want to get one . Running a jk scx10 what iv should in be looking for I have the regular non sensored 2400kv for my slash and it's a beast. Would this do well for me or should I be looking at different kv. Mostly trails and rock climbing with a little go fast is my intention.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[calcagno45]

Originally Posted by thumperc25

Not to get off topic but I would like to talk about the castle motors! lol I was planning on the roc412 but have always been a castle fan know with these motors I want to get one . Running a jk scx10 what iv should in be looking for I have the regular non sensored 2400kv for my slash and it's a beast. Would this do well for me or should I be looking at different kv. Mostly trails and rock climbing with a little go fast is my intention.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Are you typically running 2s or 3s? That would help decide.

Sure the new Castle sensored motors are unproven but they are based on their proven motors. If you wanted to run Castle, the 1415-2400 in sensored would be a bit much for the SCX, in my opinion, but would work. I have the sensorless motor and it's a monster on 2s in one of my Rustlers. The 1410-3800kv would be a quick motor but on 2s likely do great. Castle is coming out with more options in the 1406 size which will likely pair up better with the SCX. Hemistorm was testing a 1406-1900 recently.

Tekin and Holmes currently have better Kv options out there.

[mikemcE]

Look at a 2650..... just about right for 3s


Hang up and Drive

[JohnRobHolmes]

So the feedback I've gotten from other drivers is that low speed control is very poor compared to Tekin and Holmes. The motors will not spin as slow as a roc or puller. This is the same findings I found developing sensored motors from the NUE stator and rotor. They were engineered for efficiency in an airplane and have no refinements regarding detent torque and startup RPM.

I've yet to drive one myself. But I've gotten plenty of feedback that's quite "meh" compared to crawler engineered motors.

[LSXGMC]

Originally Posted by JohnRobHolmes

So the feedback I've gotten from other drivers is that low speed control is very poor compared to Tekin and Holmes. The motors will not spin as slow as a roc or puller. This is the same findings I found developing sensored motors from the NUE stator and rotor. They were engineered for efficiency in an airplane and have no refinements regarding detent torque and startup RPM.

I've yet to drive one myself. But I've gotten plenty of feedback that's quite "meh" compared to crawler engineered motors.

I'm assuming that you are referencing the legitimate Castle motors.

Kind of expected it, but still pretty disappointing. They had a great opportunity to knock it out of the park. I'll wait for a few more reviews, or some video comparisons before making my own conclusion though.

[JohnRobHolmes]

Yes, real castle motors bought straight from castle or provided by them to drivers for testing.


Re-engineering a motor is no small feat. They have very very well tested motors that are practically the highest efficiency in the industry. In their position, I probably wouldn't change it up and risk unknown issues.


I am fortunate to have one engineer that is crawler crazy enough to spend years refining a motor startup before release, it's me. Not all efforts work out though, I've spent a few thousand hours on the revolver and still can't make it commercially viable due to sensor variation within the die. It's tough work sometimes, but sometimes we get lucky and hit the mark pretty fast.

[84yoda]

So if castle isn't filling the order and price is back to normal.... Are these clones or what?

[JohnRobHolmes]

Depends on where you get it. If it's shipping from China and its not an online retailer of castle, probably clones. Then the only thing that's similar is can color.

[mikemcE]

JRH these were an amazon typo... they have since changed prices, here's an example of the prices

Robert from castle is aware of this pricing also





Hang up and Drive

[JohnRobHolmes]

I wouldn't hesitate to ask the seller if they are buying direct or through a distributor, and who it is. Let them know you are concerned about counterfeits. If they won't provide info, move on. If they do, it can be double checked. The last thing I would want to do is pay Castle prices for clone quality.

[EeePee]

Can't read; too small

[mikemcE]

Originally Posted by EeePee

Can't read; too small

I don't think size is your issue..... then again


Hang up and Drive

[robert@castle]

Since it is on Prime and fulfilled by amazon, I'm fairly sure they are coming from us. If they wern't Amazon would be in violation of our distribution contracts.

I think it was just a data entry typo when they entered the products. They also spelled checked sensored to censored in the posting which they have fixed since they updated the price. I believe we contacted them about that when we noticed the price being low.

[calcagno45]

Hemistorm's latest video spills the beans on testing a 1406-2280 and 1406-2850 motor as well as the 1406-1900. Also saw in the old Facebook, castle said a 1406-3800 will be available.

[robert@castle]

Originally Posted by calcagno45

Hemistorm's latest video spills the beans on testing a 1406-2280 and 1406-2850 motor as well as the 1406-1900. Also saw in the old Facebook, castle said a 1406-3800 will be available.

I would be interested to hear which of those KV's you guys would like the most.

The 1900kv is the slowest but also has the least power. Engineering really liked the 2280kv and 2850kv. We didn't really do much testing with the 3800kv because we assumed that wouldn't make it to market since we already have a 3800kv in the 1410.

[mikemcE]

Robert do you mean the 2650 (2850)?

OOPs saw the 1406 too late
Hang up and Drive