New class to encourage newbs..

[C*H*U*D]

Originally Posted by Charlie-III

Little by little, we have dropped "classes" due to the workload of the "core guys that do everything"



A beginners class could be good, but I only see it as a lot more work for the few that put these events on. I sorta don't think it's fair to them in a small club/group.

This is a good point, and probably a big reason these new classes don't get started, or other classes get dropped.

I bet though if people just walked up and said, "Hey, what can I do to help out", nobody would turn them away. Grab a clipboard and judge...as score sheets start coming in, grab a calculator and start adding totals...when everyone else is heading for their cars to leave, stick around and clean up the course by collecting gate markers. Take some workload off of others, and the comp will run smoother and faster.

[muddauber7]

Originally Posted by C*H*U*D

I bet though if people just walked up and said, "Hey, what can I do to help out", nobody would turn them away. Grab a clipboard and judge...as score sheets start coming in, grab a calculator and start adding totals...when everyone else is heading for their cars to leave, stick around and clean up the course by collecting gate markers. Take some workload off of others, and the comp will run smoother and faster.

Well said...

[Chris_The_Battery_Man]

Originally Posted by JeremyH

We operate our club in the same way. When new guys come out, we ease up on the course design.

I have also been thinking about this quite a bit lately and think I might have come up with a solution (at least for our club).

The 5 gate, 5 bonus setup (one gate, one bonus, one gate, one bonus..etc.). This setup allows for new guys to finish the required gates and then start attempting the bonus gates. Pro drivers who are wanting to win know that they need to do the bonus gates and will go for those. This helps everyone work on their time management skills AND practice with national level style course setups.

A similar idea was purposed by good ol Ryan(Rbgerrish) to run 10 easy gates and 10 hard(bonus) gates to save time and encourage the newbs. I have since been trying to fill his shoes at our local ORCRC comps, and am finding it a hard task lol.

We have a couple new guys that are a treat to have. They are very pleasant and have the right attitude, that it's for fun! There are some new guys also that are kind of spotty and I think it's because the frustration I have seen them get when they do poorly on a course.


Perhaps I will adopt this on our up coming comp and see how it's taken



I like the imput that is being put out guys. I am not necissarily pushing for a nationally recognized class I guess. Just more of something a little structured to help us nationally invite in new guys and have a good way to keep em hooked. Even if that means of 10 newbs, 1 steps up to a pro level, thats fine. I just don't want to see the hobby shrink. It seems we are losing vendor interest in the comp scene and I am surprised that the big brands havent released their own crawlers yet. Then again Im not because the crawler world seems to have been relatively quiet lately....


.

[JeremyH]

Originally Posted by Chris_The_Battery_Man

A similar idea was purposed by good ol Ryan(Rbgerrish) to run 10 easy gates and 10 hard(bonus) gates to save time and encourage the newbs

That is my thinking with the 5 and 5. We can make the "required" gates easier and the "bonus" gates as hard as we want. This should help encourage new guys and let them finish, but still make the entire course (10 gates) tough for the old dogs...

[CAIRN]

Originally Posted by Chris_The_Battery_Man

I think we are starting to put a larger gap between the pro level drivers, and the people that want to get into it and start somewhere.

This is a very true statement. The guys running the club and the ones who are really at a level to compete have been at this for 3+ years. That core group is pushing the gate numbers up and the time to complete down to keep it challenging. They are in fact moving the sport forward in many ways with this approach. Making each other better in the process.

I'm new. Have been to three comps and really enjoy the experience. BUT - regardless of how much $$$ I spend on an MOA rig, it will take YEARS of driving experience to actually compete with my local club guys. They can outright DRIVE, and it's great to watch and learn from.

Crawing is a very specialized hobby. This inherently makes it difficult for new people to get involved. If the rig designs, build options, setups, and part solutions get more standardized I think more new guys will be in a position to get into Pro Class with a rig that won't become obsolete next season.

I'm happy running Sportsman and watching/helping the Pro guys battle it out. But last week I was the only one in the class. Was able to run two courses of Pro which only proved my rig and my skill are no where ready for the big show. Happy for the experience regardless.

Maybe if the Sportsman's class was more recognized and standardized it could be the "open door" for next generation of Pro enthusiasts. I just can't take my shafty to Pro and really compete, which is part of the problem. No MOA's in Sportsman so the upfront cost can't be carried into the next level. If the sport would say "Club & National level crawling is based on MOA design only" and make Sportsman a RTR MOA level class, then new people could better justify getting in because the PRO guys would be running heavy modified versions of the entry class rigs.

Just a new guys perspective.

[BigSki]

Originally Posted by C*H*U*D

True, but since we are talking about new drivers, you could also say learn how to drive better and finish a course.

I think there will always be a problem with a beginner class until there is a way to limit who can enter. There was a lot of talk about Sporty being an introductory class, but everyone forgot that the Pro drivers all had Sporty rigs already...their old comp trucks. They just had to take their digs out, show up and start pounding everyone. Then to keep it interesting for them, the courses got harder and harder.

When I raced bicycles, you had to be licensed. Once you advanced to higher levels of competition, you could not go backwards. With RC Crawling, there is nothing to stop pro level drivers from entering whatever class they want.

Start a spec class with no restriction, and see how long it takes before the better drivers enter so they can have more drive time. Before long it will be only them competing with each other while another discussion starts here about how to attract new drivers.

I agree with what you say. My club had this discussion many times, we were actually one of the first ones to organize a sportman class, the intent was to have everyone use the left over parts from upgrades to "slap" together a very basic ( almost stock ax-10) rig, we thought it might help beginners have a place to run. It very quickly lost the focus of a "stock" crawler and turned into exactly what everyone has described- a full blown comp rig sans the dig.

I personally think a fully detailed 'SPEC' class would be the way to do it. I'd even suggest that the new axial rig (ridgecrest?) be used, the gate width could be made wider to accommodate the wider axles. The rigs should be 100% mechanically stock, 2S limit, just a radio upgrade should be allowed. The experienced drivers would still have an edge but the vehicles would be all on equal ground.

[Manning]

I love the idea of a "spec" class, but the entire RC industry and the typical consumer is wrapped up in the quest for "mods" and "upgrades".

How many newbs aren't going to change anything on the rig? It just makes it tougher to tech. Then, is anyone going to say to a newb, "sorry, you can't run the newb class cause your rig is too trick"?

The newb class needs to be run whatcha brung. Then mentor the newbs and advise them on the next mod to make. Get rid of the stick pack, get a lipo, add some weight up front, etc.

As mentioned before, comp crawling is a niche within a niche hobby. A very specialized niche.

[billet works]

Originally Posted by JeremyH

That is my thinking with the 5 and 5. We can make the "required" gates easier and the "bonus" gates as hard as we want. This should help encourage new guys and let them finish, but still make the entire course (10 gates) tough for the old dogs...

This would have made a big difference a year or two ago in our club I believe. As soon as 10 newbs couldn't finish gate 1 on multiple courses with $600+ invested, attendance dropped like mad. This setup would also allow new guys with dig shafties or whatever to run a course with a good chance of getting some drive time and course completions under their belt. Sure 1 in 20 will embrace the challenge and push on, but for most, if there is no fun factor, they won't be back and neither will their friends.

It's tough to set up a newbie friendly class in spec form as in most cases, guys are buying their rig from a hobby shop employee with little to no knowledge of our crawling world...it's just another sale. They don't even know crawling clubs exist until they have their first crawler king or what have you.

[Illeagle]

Originally Posted by billet works

Sure 1 in 20 will embrace the challenge and push on, but for most, if there is no fun factor, they won't be back and neither will their friends.

This is a great thread topic and something we have been discussing in our local club for the past month or so. Its really hard because some guys say you need to Challenge the pros in our club but other guys say you need to keep it easy for the new guys. Its definitely challenging to do both. I personally have been pushing for the FUN side and always will because as you said 1 in 20 will embrace the challenge but if guys arent having fun they wont be back. BOTTOM LINE.

We have a pure sportsman class here and run it at every comp for new guys but the attendance for that group is pretty low. We are discussing some new options for next season and they are all along the lines of what you guys are discussing here. Tomorrow is our last season comp and over the summer we will be testing out some new formats.

I would just hope that guys dont forget that winning is awesome but having fun out on the rocks with your buddies is what is REALLY all about.

[Arct1k]

Course design - build outs to take gates and gain progress...

Local rules - you can create your own club rules for handicaps etc.

When judging a NEWB i'll help someone finish the course off time and points after they've pointed out. No reason for anyone to leave upset - just motivated to get better.

[Crawlinyota]

As a newb i am going to Rausch Creek tomorrow to compete in the scaler 2.2 class. I've never competed but am hoping for a learning lesson. Again i have over 1000.00 in my scaler rig which is not heard of. I dont expect to win, but hope i can at least run and learn. I agree with a progressive course with "bonus" gates seems the most logical.
I don't think a whole new class for RTR out of the box rigs would work.
There are plenty of free or cheap mods on every site about rc crawling for every type of rc.
I have modded both my crawlers, and as most know, you never really finishing modding or upgrading.
Of course i will be disappointed to go and not complete a gate, but at least i am trying.
As long as others can maybe point me in the right direction on what i should do to make my rig better, i am all game.
Obviously driving time is what it mostly comes down to.
No newb, even with a 2000.00 rig, should expect to win or even complete anything til he/she gets some driving time under the belt.
If i can make all my local club runs and attempt to compete i am satisfied.
Remember always most people by these as toys, not competition vehicles.

Anyway i vented out enough.
lol

looking forward to see where this progresses from here.

[donhd04]

Originally Posted by C*H*U*D

The problem I see with a box stock class is durability. Many of the parts out there aren't just performance enhancers, but also add strength. I get more frustrated if my truck breaks every outing, then I do finishing last.

I have to disagree CHUD. Read my sig at the bottom. I am the new guy. Look at the industry also. The wraith and now the ridge rest. It's heading towards faster and with some crawl ability mixed in. So again I say go the way of the guys from the Midwest and south. Beginners mostly stock, run what you bring, take out all the restrictions and gates and make it fastest to the finish. No point deduction stuff and just make it fun and easier. You will likley never break the entire rig to have to do a complete rebuild and only have to do a little at a time. Build as you go. I know building on your chassis I have had to go extremely slow and it's been confusing. By the end of summer I should be able to mount the motor correctly. Haha.

[ROCKEDUP RICKY]

I say do it like Tee Ball, Every body is a winner.

[JeremyH]

Originally Posted by ROCKEDUP RICKY

I say do it like Tee Ball, Every body is a winner.

Put your crawler on a 2 foot post and hit it with a bat?

[FRENCHBLUE72]

How do you guys in other areas get word out about crawling? I live in a pretty small town and maybe I should get some cheap fliers made and posted at the local hobby shops...

[JeremyH]

Originally Posted by FRENCHBLUE72

How do you guys in other areas get word out about crawling? I live in a pretty small town and maybe I should get some cheap fliers made and posted at the local hobby shops...

One of the hobby shops here runs a video that I made for them on their in store TV loop.

[FRENCHBLUE72]

Nice I know that tammies also run a video or at least last time I was there they did but then agian they are on the other side of the state.. Most of the shops here cater to planes or short course trucks..

[Duuuuuuuude]

Originally Posted by donhd04

So again I say go the way of the guys from the Midwest and south. Beginners mostly stock, run what you bring, take out all the restrictions and gates and make it fastest to the finish.

That's not crawling, that's rock racing.

Originally Posted by ROCKEDUP RICKY

I say do it like Tee Ball, Every body is a winner.

I was going to disagree with you and then realized that you said "tea ball", not the other thing...

Originally Posted by FRENCHBLUE72

How do you guys in other areas get word out about crawling? I live in a pretty small town and maybe I should get some cheap fliers made and posted at the local hobby shops...

Hit up motorcycle and auto repair shops too.

[jangar]

I have been researching different web sites on crawling information and I happened to find this site. I am finding out that there is more to know about the sport than I originally anticipated. I live in western PA and I am looking for a club that has crawling comps so I can observe what is needed to get involved in crawling. Thanks for the information in this forum about newbies to crawling it has been very informative!
Thanks!

[OKJeepin]

Originally Posted by jangar

I live in western PA and I am looking for a club that has crawling comps so I can observe what is needed to get involved in crawling.

Welcome to world of crawling!

You might try the sub forum for Pennsylvania for info on local clubs and comps.