2017 .... its coming and we need growth

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by kmnss

So, I've never attended a comp, so take this however you feel.

In the past .... holy crap, 20 years that I've been building and beating on RC cars, crawling was the most fun for me because of the innovation of having to build/engineer/etc in the early days. Then the AX10 came out and it exploded. Hell, the AX10 really got me into "comp level" crawlers with a DNA chassis/Dig, etc.

Fast forward to today, and I'm running a comp level rig. I've built full on comp worthy 2.2P rigs, currently run a comp worthy Un-Stuck based rig. They get run in my back yard with my sons, I take them on vacations to see if I can find a place to run them, but I don't have time to drive two or three hours to a comp. I am located in DFW and there used to be a presence here, and I know for a fact there's a presence east of here because Nova's Ark is in East Texas. If I have to drive more than an hour to get to a comp where I'm going to spend 5 to 7 hours, and then drive another hour back, I just don't bother with it.

Same thing happened when the raceway in Kennedale shut down, I didn't have anywhere to run the 1/8th scale truggies and buggies, so I sold them. At least I can run the crawler on the rock pile in the backyard.

That's my take on it, no comps because they're not close. Hell, Don from VF/DNA/BWD used to live two streets down from me, and I had the same problem. Comps are too far away here.

Originally Posted by Curcal

I would encourage you to try and create something similar. Running in your backyard s a good start! bring friends over get them started. Then the group will grow.

Or do you have a local hobby shop around that does outdoor racing? Have a pile of rocks around there? Or talk with a local shop that would bring some rocks in to promote the crawling?


We got super lucky with our local shop years ago, he brought rocks inside and even some outside since he had the space. Its been a great spot where guys can just bang lexan around and has given us a local indoor winter spot.


I hear ya on the traveling part. Personally I will drive 2 hours to compete but the drive definitely isnt a motivator for me lol.

[blandon]

Comp crawling is definitely a commitment! My average drive is 1.5 hours to a comp not counting some of the other larger events that are upwards of 4 hours. I personally love to compete and the friends I've made with the Ct. club I run with and other states are top notch. All the people I've met would help you in a second with parts or helping you repair your rig to get it to the next course! Comp crawling is a very small niche in the world of R/C and the quality of people that I meet in this hobby and my drive to keep getting better keeps me coming back for more!!

[kmnss]

So the local hobby shops around here.... well, they are absolutely WONDERFUL.

If you own a T-Maxx.

There is a Hobby Town within a mile of my house, and they have had maybe two parts that were actually in stock when I needed them. In 15 years.

LightSpeed used to be my favorite hobby shop, and I visited them daily. They built my motors, matched my batteries, sold me the kits, and gave the best damn advice around. Sadly, due to several issues with one of the main partners, they closed their doors back in 2005 or 2006.

Roy's does oval track, nuff said there. Also no rocks.

Mike's in Carrolton is 1/10 - 1/8 buggy/truggy, and they're widening a highway so I believe they actually had to sell the facility.

Kennedale shut down.

The Garland Raceway was pretty cool but it's almost a solid 1.5 hours away.

That leaves one hobby shop that did support most of the crawlers, but I haven't been over there in years. I may just go drop by this weekend, and I can't even remember the name of it.

I have had the idea of opening up a shop, but after seeing so many of them not do well in the last 20+ years, I just keep my sons involved, and get as many of my friends to take part as possible. One of the biggest problems from being in the DFW area is that everything is always changing. One spot that was great, will be an Ikea in four weeks, possibly a WalMart in seven weeks. Everytime I seem to find a good place to crawl, it turns into a Quicktrip or an In and Out burger within a few months.

Well, sorry for the long rant. I should probably just sack up and drive the hour or two needed to make some of these events.

[Purptr8r]

Originally Posted by Robbob

Ok 2016 is rolling and I think a lot of us can say there has been some growth to competitive 2.2 and Super classes. But can we say its growth we have seen years before? Is it growth becuase veterans took a break and are slowly dusting off their trucks? Or is it growth with new faces?



I think (maybe) a lot of us could agree its a mix but more of it being veterans dusting off trucks. How do we get those new, actually real new drivers to try the comp side?



Not trying to lite fires or turn anything into a finger pointing thread but looking for real input for ideas on what we as a community can push to have changed, rearranged, added, retracted .... something to try with serious intent to get our hobby back where it was. I think the keyboard sometimes hides the passion a lot of us have about our hobby and that holds us back from trying new things.



Heres my thought into Shafty ..... much of which I think gets misunderstood in other discussions. My heart is in sporty, I truly believe its the stepping stone for many and something we should utilize to attract new people. Many I have sold the un-Stuck too I find telling me they dont even bother with here or comping big events. Most tell me its because traveling to an event they soemtimes feel they cant compete with the level of drivers that are there. Ya kind of feeds into that everyone gets a cookie mentality now but how do we change that image or thought processing?



2.2 use to be shafties all the time then MOA came and the field changed and the winners became the new truck. Shafties went into the closet until the 2.2S class came out. We saw more trucks come out full of dust and we saw new people showing up. The class brought positive growth I felt and loved the 'grass roots' style again. You could compete with something that cost half as much as an MOA.



Then over time innovation and limits were pushed and I think we reached a point where new drivers saw their pockets emptying and the pros winning. The feeling of being competitive on an equal level faded and we lost people. Yes that wasnt all that happened but if you look at the positive side of the other changes I think we got lucky RCCrawler and USRCCA just didnt close the doors and leave everyone out dry.



So lets discuss what could possibly, hopefully, help bring some new drivers around and grow the sport again. Lets work on 2.2S as our growth spurt.



Ive always been a believer in class separation and have verbally mentioned it several times. Even when the class was created 5 years ago but I think it was misinterpreted/understood.



Ive always said we needed a 'No Drive' drivers list but Ive never meant it to be a way of telling anyone they couldnt compete in the class. Ive meant more of a separation between Pro and Novice drivers.



Heres what Im always thinking and believeing could work and wouldnt even put a work load increase on event hosts. We seperate the drivers by wins and their own choice of classes.



We create a Pro and a separate Novice entry level into the 2.2S class. Its not an extra class, its not any different courses, its all judged the same, scored the same, teched the same. Nothing about the class rules is different. Both class drivers would run the same exact courses, You would just be competing against similar skill drivers. Ill get into vehicle separation shortly too because that would play into it.



If you have won a Worlds, Nation or even any of the qualifiers any year then you would be added to a No Drive list. All that means is if you won a 2.2S qualifier/championship (Ill use those terms just out of habit) then you couldnt run the 'novice' class at the big events. If you are a past 2.2S National/Worlds champion then again you would have to run in the 'Pro' level of the 2.2S class at big events.



I believe this would take the fear of competing against serious veterans out of the picture and maybe help people feel they are competing against drivers closer to their own skill level.



Now if a Novice class driver won any big events in the novice class their name would be added to the no drive list for the following year and they would have to bump up to the Pro level. We wouldnt instantly make them bump like a break out class for the same year, it would only effect them for the following year and after.



Now what if a Novice driver wanted to try the Pro level? We let them, we're not gonna tell them they cant until they win. But we also wont hold them to it either. If they ran for instance the Pro level in NENC and felt they didnt or werent good enough then we would let them fall back to the Novice class for lets say ECC. But once they won a big event then there would be no going back for the following years.



Make sense? In the racing world they have a rookie class for racers. You cant have any level or type of sponsor or even put sponsor stickers on your car. It is straight rookies. Its more to take the fear of driver experience out of their minds and attract new people.



Now rules ..... we need them and we need straight forward ones that help driver wallets but dont hold them back or hold parts companies back. So heres where I think our big help could come from.



Body rules for both driver classes. We need to stick to having a shell of some sort on the trucks. No body less at all, bodies would stay being made of Lexan. Also they would have to meet A, B, C measurements like it use to be. None of this 'including' the frame/chassis stuff. Put them back to the old way for the 2.2S class both Pro and Novice level. Theres nothing attractive about seeing a body hacked up to just the cab so it meets the roof rule and having a chassis 8'' long. Keep it simple .... the lexan body must measure A, B, C .... 8'' x 3'' x 3'' like it was. Plain and simple and everyone has to meet it. Heck we could even maybe see more involvement from the bigger companies with this.



Now lets look at truck costs. I can understand how a sporty can cost 1000-2000$ but whats the first question someone always asks when they see you practicing? How much does something like that cost?



How do we keep costs down for new drivers? Fresh into the hobby with bare minimal equipment or none at all. Rules.



Novice class .....



What about chassis material limits? What if we took the Carbon Fiber price out of the equation and limit it to G10? We could cut chassis prices almost/virtually in half. Drivers could get the same exact designs that are already out there and even be able to use that chassis in Pro level classes. They wouldnt have to buy new chassis just to move up. It would be their choice to do that if they wanted. They would still get pro level chassis but at a cost saving. We already have very competitive chassis's out there in G10 performing at top level so we know the material isnt holding them back.



Weight minimum. Again its a rule everyone would have to follow so the novice field would be closer to each other. It would take the mind set of 'have to be under **lbs' to win' out of the driver. We all drove 5-6+ pound trucks for years and tuned them to win. What about a 5* minimum .... for all novice class drivers? It doesnt matter where they stack it, what bias they run or even it 2lbs was in the roof. They all have to way the same.



Yes smart drivers will stack their front axles, stack it low or what ever but thats all part of learning. Light drive trains and as much weight below the axles as possible. Again its not gonna limit innovation or lose sales for anyone, it can only level the field by having a minimum.



We really cant and shouldnt limit radio equipment so I would never think of that. I would though think to limit batteries though, 3S max. With the motors we have today and ESC's we really dont need 4S but again a rule everyone has to follow in the novice class can only help to simplify things. Besides trying to handle a 4S and being new probably wont help someone trying to learn how to drive.





Tires ..... not a limit on types or brands but what if we got the thought of cut and shuts out? You want to compete but now you have to buy 80$ tires and cut them in half or buy 80$ of one tire and 80$ of another just to cut them all up and glue them together. Its not gonna make you win by doing it but if there was a rule limiting it then drivers may not feel like they lost because some one else spent 150$ on tires and they didnt.



I believe in my heart 2.2S class is the growth of our sport thats why I always jump into discussions when it comes to changes that effect that class. 2.2M is the big dogs, its the crown jewel of our sport so I always roll with its decisions and rule changes. If we could bring more into the shafty class by financially helping them and leveling the field I think we could see a positive growth again.



Again Im never one for creating or adding classes, this would be more of a way to separate experience and help ease the shell shock of getting into crawling.



Events wouldn't have to do anything different except separate scores by driver classes. No extra courses, no extra judges, no different scoring .... just simply separate driver numbers by driver class.



2016 is half over ....... if we start conversing now maybe as a collective community we could bring life back to crawling.



Ideas .. Input .. Thoughts ????



How do we attract those drivers that crawl around among friends to our clubs and events?

I'll remember that next time you need tires .... I like my 80/80 150 dollar cut in half and pieces and glued to my fingers tires thank you very much dad !!!!


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[Purptr8r]

I've loaned my trucks to people I just met at comps 100
Times ... I don't care what they cost me as long as someone has a good time and gets the " fever" driving it .... I love the glimmer in a scale Guy's eyes using dig and burn or my 70 degree steering or how people are amazed that glue holds pieces of multiple tires together .... Yes people are discouraged by the prices but I point them towards vendors like Rob bob or Holmes hobbies ... The average person can build a truck for what I spent on 2 brood motors lol .... I like the idea of RWYB my club does it but in all reality people don't really show up or they are still intimidated when they see 12 guys with 2000 dollar trucks and dreadlocks and sponge bob tattoos ... Right Rob .... Some form of outlaw comp scaler shafty thing would be a easy way to bridge the gap ..... A vendor like Holmes with a boat load of money to invest should get together with a poor guy like Rob and a handsome guy like me and release a kit that has form function and decent electronics ..... Hint hint cough cough nudge nudge


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[Jslick]

I think moving forward we need to take small steps. The current rules should not change for several years. I really like the idea of the Novice and Veteran grouping distinction within the individual classes and for events. The other things like tires, chassis materials and so on could be a later discussion and possible addition. I have always felt that building on success is the best way to go. Throwing too much stuff often confuses more than clears things up. I am glad to be part of a community that has the best interest of the hobby/sport in mind.

[blandon]

Originally Posted by Purptr8r

I've loaned my trucks to people I just met at comps 100
Times ... I don't care what they cost me as long as someone has a good time and gets the " fever" driving it .... I love the glimmer in a scale Guy's eyes using dig and burn or my 70 degree steering or how people are amazed that glue holds pieces of multiple tires together .... Yes people are discouraged by the prices but I point them towards vendors like Rob bob or Holmes hobbies ... The average person can build a truck for what I spent on 2 brood motors lol .... I like the idea of RWYB my club does it but in all reality people don't really show up or they are still intimidated when they see 12 guys with 2000 dollar trucks and dreadlocks and sponge bob tattoos ... Right Rob .... Some form of outlaw comp scaler shafty thing would be a easy way to bridge the gap ..... A vendor like Holmes with a boat load of money to invest should get together with a poor guy like Rob and a handsome guy like me and release a kit that has form function and decent electronics ..... Hint hint cough cough nudge nudge


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I don't think it's the $2000 trucks scaring them, it's that 6'3 dreaded up dude walking out of a heavy fog of fruit punch smelling vape smoke that scares the be Jesus out of them!!!

[Purptr8r]

Originally Posted by blandon

I don't think it's the $2000 trucks scaring them, it's that 6'3 dreaded up dude walking out of a heavy fog of fruit punch smelling vape smoke that scares the be Jesus out of them!!!

Bwahahahahahah it's sugar cookie eggnog flavor today and no trex costume


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[blandon]

Originally Posted by Purptr8r

Bwahahahahahah it's sugar cookie eggnog flavor today and no trex costume


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LMAO!!!!! The juice has to fit the season!!!

[Purptr8r]

Originally Posted by blandon

LMAO!!!!! The juice has to fit the season!!!

It's not like I pull up to comps blaring lamb of god ... I'm pretty friendly even if I look scary .... After 3 cups of panty dropper we all hump each other's legs so what's more inviting than a bunch of sweaty old men playing with toy trucks .... Nothing to fear there lol


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[blandon]

Originally Posted by Purptr8r

It's not like I pull up to comps blaring lamb of god ... I'm pretty friendly even if I look scary .... After 3 cups of panty dropper we all hump each other's legs so what's more inviting than a bunch of sweaty old men playing with toy trucks .... Nothing to fear there lol


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I show up to comps just for the panty dropper, the leg humping is really just a bonus!!

[Purptr8r]

Speaking of 2017 I need some fresh Holmes hobbies and krazedbuilds products


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[Robbob]

Originally Posted by Purptr8r

Speaking of 2017 I need some fresh Holmes hobbies and krazedbuilds products


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Start with a new sporty


The whole river separation/driver list is to take the image of competing against 10 year veterans away from the new guy maybe feeling overwhelmed/discouraged and feeling its equipment.

Bringing cost down could also help the pocket and bring a little more level feel to the game for new drivers.

My only concern with a run what you brung is there has to be limits or it could be a money pit class that 3 people get into then nothing comes from them and the hobby gets no benefit or progress towards growing. (cough 1.9 unlimited cough)

Also if a guide line is set for things on a bigger level then more clubs could know what to expect/adhere to and it could grow. One club may say you could run cut n shut 120$ tires then that driver shows up to another clubs event that says no cut n shut tires ...... whats that driver do then? Drive home? Never go back to that club? Wheres the growth in that club?

When 1.9 came out USRCCA said bam this is the class ..... clubs can always do what they want to adapt but if you want it to be official then this is how its ruled.

Run ya what you brung is great for scale if you ask me but for the competition side, its just a get together. Once the driver learns whats involved in competition and a legal vehicle they'll probably just go buy an SCX2. We become the breeding crowd for future scalers. :/

Good example ..... When I started the LSO class for our local club years ago I kept every thing about the truck with the same rules as the USRCCA 2.2 class rules but I said shafty drive only, 1 motor only, 2 channels only, 1 transmission (and specified it had to chassis mounted), and outlawed certain comp tires to help keep kit tires use able. We brought people in to the winter season and even took some with us outdoor, we had local growth for the hobby.

Less then a year later the real Sporty came out and the local drivers we attracted where able to jump right in. You cant do that with a run what you brung class.

Last example ..... I didnt run in the class for 2 reasons. I had my old Losi LCC that I just won the season with over MOA's and didnt feel it was fair bringing that truck with my experience into a class I was trying to use to promote growth and the sport. No rules kept me out, only my personal honor but I cant speak for everyone and we know theres drivers out there who would use a driver separated class to be a hero.

We have to think of the sport and what will bring those uneasy feeling drivers to us ..... not just look at it from our own eyes and wants.

[Purptr8r]

Originally Posted by Robbob

Start with a new sporty


The whole river separation/driver list is to take the image of competing against 10 year veterans away from the new guy maybe feeling overwhelmed/discouraged and feeling its equipment.

Bringing cost down could also help the pocket and bring a little more level feel to the game for new drivers.

My only concern with a run what you brung is there has to be limits or it could be a money pit class that 3 people get into then nothing comes from them and the hobby gets no benefit or progress towards growing.

Also if a guide line is set for things on a bigger level then more clubs could know what to expect/adhere to and it could grow. One club may say you could run cut n shut 120$ tires then that driver shows up to another clubs event that says no cut n shut tires ...... whats that driver do then? Drive home? Never go back to that club? Wheres the growth in that club?

When 1.9 came out USRCCA said bam this is the class ..... clubs can always do what they want to adapt but if you want it to be official then this is how its ruled.

Run ya what you brung is great for scale if you ask me but for the competition side, its just a get together. Once the driver learns whats involved in competition and a legal vehicle they'll probably just go buy an SCX2.

Good example ..... When I started the LSO class for our local club years ago I kept every thing about the truck with the same rules as the USRCCA 2.2 class rules but I said shafty drive only, 1 motor only, 2 channels only, 1 transmission (and specified it had to chassis mounted), and outlawed certain comp tires to help keep kit tires use able. We brought people in to the winter season and even took some with us outdoor, we had local growth for the hobby.

Less then a year later the real Sporty came out and the local drivers we attracted where able to jump right in. You cant do that with a run what you brung class.

Last example ..... I didnt run in the class for 2 reasons. I had my old Losi LCC that I just won the season with over MOA's and didnt feel it was fair bringing that truck with my experience into a class I was trying to use to promote growth and the sport. No rules kept me out, only my personal honor but I cant speak for everyone and we know theres drivers out there who would use a driver separated class to be a hero.

See now we are back at the money pit comment ... Get a new " unstuck " chassis from that krazedbuilds. ...? Killer vendor nice guy but even if he " gave me " a chassis as his team driver half my parts won't work .. I'll need the chassis then links from dlux because I'm out of ti ...my Sdi shaft and front shaft will need to change to accommodate the chassis difference ... So although a great option I am considering .... It will then cost me another 200-250 on top of my already costly truck with 150 dollar tires


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[Robbob]

Originally Posted by Purptr8r

See now we are back at the money pit comment ... Get a new " unstuck " chassis from that krazedbuilds. ...? Killer vendor nice guy but even if he " gave me " a chassis as his team driver half my parts won't work .. I'll need the chassis then links from dlux because I'm out of ti ...my Sdi shaft and front shaft will need to change to accommodate the chassis difference ... So although a great option I am considering .... It will then cost me another 200-250 on top of my already costly truck with 150 dollar tires

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As a team driver you could just send me the truck


But great example ..... now think of it as a NEW guy with NOTHING. Do you wanna be spending 120$ on tires because thats what the guy who wins runs? Or would you rather try 60$ on rovers or 'donas and know 50% of everyone else is running the same thing and not buying their traction? 100+$ on a motor because its lighter or 60$ on one that will turn the same direction?

But its also different people will jump in at different rates. The ones who will spend the money always will but those who are budgeted differently may think more about how to save and still hold a chance of winning.

Even a 5* weight minimum put on the trucks for a Novice level could kick the feel to need SDI shafts out or even Ti axle shafts.

Put that rtr LNC up against other LNC's or older Deadbolts and not against a fully blown out 6 year veterans truck. Give Axial and Losi a reason to bring another RTR/Comp style truck out because drivers get back that 'I can do that' thought.

Im a lite weight whore for sure and I sell the crap out of carbon fiber goodies and lite weight product but its not about business for me, its about growth of the hobby. Heck I even mentioned a material limit on chassis's to help lower costs knowing it wouldn't lower our own sporty chassis because I sell it at cost already, I do that for sport growth not the pocket. But I also realized that material rules for a separated level should be something all the vendors talk about because its their business to run and I dont wanna see something negatively effect a vendor.

Besides you're at the level where a separated Novice class wouldnt effect you .... unless you chose to let it effect you and decided to run in it.

We have to think of the sport and what will bring those uneasy feeling drivers to us ..... not just look at it from our own eyes and wants.

[Purptr8r]

At least I'll look good while losing to novices


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[Jslick]

Originally Posted by Robbob

I'm a lite weight whore

[Jslick]

Originally Posted by Robbob

Besides you're at the level where a separated Novice class wouldn't effect you ....

Have you seen him drive??

[Purptr8r]

Originally Posted by Jslick

Have you seen him drive??

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[Purptr8r]

Originally Posted by Jslick

Have you seen him drive??

Slick it's not my fault I don't practice and always take the man line .... If I had free time like you and Troy and courses were 6 minutes I'd show you how to wear the big boy pants while sipping the dropper ;)


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