Legal Body Panels Help Guide and Disscussion

[DickyT]

Originally Posted by Fishmaxx

WE will however be defining what a body to help those needing more clarity

[ROCKEDUP RICKY]

Maybe we should defind what a tire is, what an axle is,what a motor is, etc while we're at it.

[articzap]

Originally Posted by BC-Brian

The point is that they have not defined what a body is so who is to say what is or isn't.

I agree with you on this point completely. This is why I was asking your input on what you think a body is. Since you wish to push it to the edge, where do you feel the edge is?

Would love to hear your thoughts and opinions. You can PM me if you don't wish to post publicly.

[crawlinghulls]

If the topper were formed from delrin, had large areas cut from it, ran body panels and had the front/rear shocks mounted to it? The one piece design is gorgeous.

[ROCKEDUP RICKY]

Originally Posted by crawlinghulls

If the topper were formed from delrin, had large areas cut from it, ran body panels and had the front/rear shocks mounted to it? The one piece design is gorgeous.

Wouldn't that make it a unibody with panels on it.

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by Fishmaxx

Its a body. Even if you make it out of Delrin its still a body.

WE will however be defining what a body to help those needing more clarity

Thats what our brain was telling us at tech time .... its a body BUT there was nothing defining a difference between the two besides measurements.

Be it better though this pops up now instead of later - like after anyone travels to a Nats to find out its a no go.

Originally Posted by BC-Brian

We don't have a rules committee at every event so naturally things like this pop up.

Yup and thats why we let it fly. By the rules, the way they are written theres no real definition. That and we knew it wasnt gonna be the deciding factor or win all thing. If you won it was gonna be because of truck and driver, not a questionable topper/body.

Originally Posted by BC-Brian

The point is that they have not defined what a body is so who is to say what is or isn't.

Fish says they are going to define body so maybe we will have our answer.

Without testing the boundaries how are we supposed to know where they are. The ultimate point is that wether you like it or not it meets all the requirements of a Bodiless vehicle. So lets clarify the rules. I am not going to go into a HULK rage if I cannot use my topper. The point still remains for those of us who want to push the limits we need to know where the line is and vague rules don't help.

I dont think its vague rules, I think its clear and to the point but involves the general hobbies/peoples perception of what is and isnt. 25+ years of being in RC I see something like yours I think body. Its something I could throw on a Traxxas 1/16 scale and it would fit. It wouldnt be sold as a 'topper' for a bodiless 1/16 vehicle ..... it would be sold as a 'Body'.

I agree on testing the limits though. Some great things have come out of that, heck JIA mentioned something about ESC's he did back in 06 and now its pretty standard in all the ones we use.

[ROCKEDUP RICKY]

I think his vacuum formed cab is a great idea. But his cab has a hood,trunk,and doors, at that point it became a body attached to a frame. Now thats what a body is.

[BC-Brian]

Originally Posted by ROCKEDUP RICKY

Wouldn't that make it a unibody with panels on it.

A unibody is a single element for the entire chassis, not just the top half.

[ROCKEDUP RICKY]

Originally Posted by BC-Brian

A unibody is a single element for the entire chassis, not just the top half.

Your top half has a front,back and 2 sides to it too.

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by ROCKEDUP RICKY

I think his vacuum formed cab is a great idea. But his cab has a hood,trunk,and doors, at that point it became a body attached to a frame. Now thats what a body is.

reading it written out like that ........ yup agree even more its a body.

you should run for body chairmen

[JohnRobHolmes]

Originally Posted by ROCKEDUP RICKY

I think his vacuum formed cab is a great idea. But his cab has a hood,trunk,and doors, at that point it became a body attached to a frame. Now thats what a body is.

Thats the definition I'm looking for, thanks for putting articulate words to the "look"

[Speedracer19]

Originally Posted by ROCKEDUP RICKY

I think his vacuum formed cab is a great idea. But his cab has a hood,trunk,and doors, at that point it became a body attached to a frame. Now thats what a body is.

I agree, the vacuumed formed body is great, now just make it 3 seprate pieces (like the rules already state & not a decal), a hood then a roof/cab & 2 side panels & he would have a bodiless chassis as long as it fits all the other measurements.

Using Lexan is not new, Austin had his first bodiless chassis cab made from lexan.

Go back to the first page of this tread & look at some of the ideas of what to use/ how to use a vacuum formed body for...

[BC-Brian]

Originally Posted by ROCKEDUP RICKY

I think his vacuum formed cab is a great idea. But his cab has a hood,trunk,and doors, at that point it became a body attached to a frame. Now thats what a body is.

This is a pretty good definition of a Body.

Body: A single piece of material, formed to represent a 1:1 vehicle, consisting of a hood, roof, and two side panels.

That being said I would have a hard time calling what I made something other than a body.

Let me hack some stuff up tonight and see what people think.

[C*H*U*D]

Originally Posted by Robbob

you should run for body chairmen

He does have the body for it

[Olle P]

Originally Posted by C*H*U*D

A roll cage wouldn't make your truck a monocoque would it? That's the only point I am trying to make.

My point is that if it pass the test without a roll cage it is a monocoque.

And also that this test applies to the more traditional bodiless as well. If their cab frame folds under a little stress it's illegal.

[krawlfreak]

Originally Posted by ROCKEDUP RICKY

Maybe we should defind what a tire is, what an axle is,what a motor is, etc while we're at it.

or a rollover

Originally Posted by Olle P

My point is that if it pass the test without a roll cage it is a monocoque.

And also that this test applies to the more traditional bodiless as well. If their cab frame folds under a little stress it's illegal.

so what happens when someone comes up with a cab mounted on springs so it intentionally folds under pressure and returns to required dimensions when pressure is released?

it would be structructural and it would fit inside the rules

we dont need any new rules or test procedures to limit design. seems a clarified definition of a body is all that would be needed to satisfy both sides of this issue.

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by krawlfreak

we dont need any new rules or test procedures to limit design. seems a clarified definition of a body is all that would be needed to satisfy both sides of this issue.

[C*H*U*D]

Originally Posted by Olle P

My point is that if it pass the test without a roll cage it is a monocoque.

I've been thinking more about the "Structurally Complete" clause in the rules.

▪ 2.1.5 - Bodiless vehicles: Must be a self-supporting, structurally complete, rigid frame.


If the cab or body does not support any of the stress, to me it is not structural. Not only do I feel Brian's truck fits into a bodied category, but since the cab is not part of the structure, it does not make the chassis "Structurally Complete".

I know this is going to open a floodgate of debate.

[BC-Brian]

So I played with the Vac table last night and came up with something else.

This is "060 Delrin. I cut out the roof, hood, sides, windows etc. I will mount body panels over the openings. It will be mounted at the upper links and the front and rear shocks, (total 8 fasteners).

Have we still got a body...?

Sorry to beat a dead horse but we might as well answer all these questions while we are talking about it.

[Olle P]

Originally Posted by C*H*U*D

If the cab or body does not support any of the stress, to me it is not structural. ... since the cab is not part of the structure, it does not make the chassis "Structurally Complete".

The thing is that it does support the stress imposed if/when the vehicle is rolling over. (By comparison: What stress do the roof bars in more traditional designs support while the vehicle is flat and level?)
And it's there to (also) shape the upper part of the structure.
Hence it's an integrated part of the overall structure.