Vf Dig Issues

[BT@VF]

Originally Posted by Mule

Ok,
after doing some more research on them, I have to agree with this. I thought this was mostly a home shop type thing and it's not. There are three guys listed on their web page and I assume all are still there. More than one guy should be able to get this stuff resolved a bit quicker. Now, if his partners bailed on him, I can see issues with being sick. But, the others need to pick it up if one goes down. I am personally involved in 4 small businesses in the mid west, if we ran things the way this is going, we would never have any business. I know what it takes to do it and these guys are getting pretty borderline here. I'm not trying to diss the VF guys for trying to have a go at it, I'm trying to point out that it takes more than one to run a business and this isn't working.

3 guys is enough huh? 1 running the mills, one packaging and procuring, and one answering e-mails and pm's... ummm if I'm not there there is not time for one of the guys that has a full day to also answer the 60+ e-mails and 25+ pm's I get per day and process orders. I swear, two days without contact and the whole world falls apart, rant on, bash on!

[Mule]

Originally Posted by BT@VF

3 guys is enough huh? 1 running the mills, one packaging and procuring, and one answering e-mails and pm's... ummm if I'm not there there is not time for one of the guys that has a full day to also answer the 60+ e-mails and 25+ pm's I get per day and process orders. I swear, two days without contact and the whole world falls apart, rant on, bash on!

Not what I said.
What I was getting at is if you are one guy doing all the work I understand why there could be issues in products, contacts and shipping.

When there are three guys, there is less chances of having all three issues going at one time. My personal question has nothing to do with quality or your ability to answer emails and PMs. I didn't blast you on here about anything but did agree with the guy that sticking up for you may not be all it's cracked up to be and that products going out the door should be as advertised when three of you are involved. I can understand one person busting ass and having to try and play mfg guy, email guy, shipper, chief cook and bottle washer. I've been there and that's why I choose not to do it anymore. If I spend a day in the shop machining, welding, turning wrenches, painting ECT, I can't be on a computer.
If you are the only one doing the on line, orders ECT then I can understand not bing able to get back to people if you are sick. BUT, one of your partners needs to contact people here or Jason and let him know to put up a post - IF it's going to be a few days....

When you have other people's money or deal with a lot of teens and twenty somethings, you are going to have some pissed off people. Us older guys USUALLY are more mellow. I understand that these are toys, that's why I generally try and keep reminding people of the way the world really is and that it doesn't always work out the way they expect. If you have a DIG that doesn't work right, it's not going to kill someone. If we/I don't have a piece of equipment working right, it may kill someone or cost us a hundred grand to fix the mess it causes. That's the real world.
Let your products, services and customer support speak for themselves. What are yours saying right now? All you have to do is read this thread and the other ones tucked here and there and you will get what you need to know.
Yes, I understand there are some guys on here that may not know what they think they do trying to put a DIG together, AND they may say stupid things. BUT, the general thing is "it appears to me that" there is too many mfg variences otherwise there wouldn't be so many bent shafts, mis machined holes ect.....

My personal questions are not going to be dealt with on a forum. If you want to speak to me personally about what I said above, please do I sent you my phone in a PM earlier. And no, I'm not interested in a bitch session with you. This is your business and my toys.

[Josh87]

Originally Posted by Mule

Not what I said.
What I was getting at is if you are one guy doing all the work I understand why there could be issues in products, contacts and shipping.

When there are three guys, there is less chances of having all three issues going at one time. My personal question has nothing to do with quality or your ability to answer emails and PMs. I didn't blast you on here about anything but did agree with the guy that sticking up for you may not be all it's cracked up to be and that products going out the door should be as advertised when three of you are involved. I can understand one person busting ass and having to try and play mfg guy, email guy, shipper, chief cook and bottle washer. I've been there and that's why I choose not to do it anymore. If I spend a day in the shop machining, welding, turning wrenches, painting ECT, I can't be on a computer.
If you are the only one doing the on line, orders ECT then I can understand not bing able to get back to people if you are sick. BUT, one of your partners needs to contact people here or Jason and let him know to put up a post - IF it's going to be a few days....

When you have other people's money or deal with a lot of teens and twenty somethings, you are going to have some pissed off people. Us older guys USUALLY are more mellow. I understand that these are toys, that's why I generally try and keep reminding people of the way the world really is and that it doesn't always work out the way they expect. If you have a DIG that doesn't work right, it's not going to kill someone. If we/I don't have a piece of equipment working right, it may kill someone or cost us a hundred grand to fix the mess it causes. That's the real world.
Let your products, services and customer support speak for themselves. What are yours saying right now? All you have to do is read this thread and the other ones tucked here and there and you will get what you need to know.
Yes, I understand there are some guys on here that may not know what they think they do trying to put a DIG together, AND they may say stupid things. BUT, the general thing is "it appears to me that" there is too many mfg variences otherwise there wouldn't be so many bent shafts, mis machined holes ect.....

My personal questions are not going to be dealt with on a forum. If you want to speak to me personally about what I said above, please do I sent you my phone in a PM earlier. And no, I'm not interested in a bitch session with you. This is your business and my toys.

Yes, these are toys, but that makes no difference in the way a company should conduct themselfs. For example boats, motorcycles, and xbox's are all toys, but do you think that Mastercraft, Honda, or Microsoft conduct their business in this manner. I don't think so and that is what has made them into the companies they are today. Toys or not if I give a company some money for a product I expect that the company is going to meet my needs. What I am trying to say here is that just because a company produces toys doesn't mean their company is any less accountable than any other company.

[Mule]

True, but this isn't a big name company and therefore the resources aren't there all the time. BUT, I'm not justifying their actions and service. I'm not happy with the service and am getting blown off like the rest. I'm trying to give get across that $hit happens to little guys and we need to give them some slack AND that they still have a responsibility to US for delivering what they say and when they say. There is a fine line between truth and lies, I'm not in a position to call someone a liar and sure not going to get mixed up in the discussion of who is right.

Nuff said.

[Josh87]

Originally Posted by Mule

True, but this isn't a big name company and therefore the resources aren't there all the time. BUT, I'm not justifying their actions and service. I'm not happy with the service and am getting blown off like the rest. I'm trying to give get across that $hit happens to little guys and we need to give them some slack AND that they still have a responsibility to US for delivering what they say and when they say. There is a fine line between truth and lies, I'm not in a position to call someone a liar and sure not going to get mixed up in the discussion of who is right.

Nuff said.

agreed

[colonelangus]

Originally Posted by BT@VF

3 guys is enough huh? 1 running the mills, one packaging and procuring, and one answering e-mails and pm's... ummm if I'm not there there is not time for one of the guys that has a full day to also answer the 60+ e-mails and 25+ pm's I get per day and process orders. I swear, two days without contact and the whole world falls apart, rant on, bash on!

excuses excuses ..if you want to make a product that everyone wants or has to have then suck it up and get them out to those who paid,and those that have issues..your very lucky to have so many people wanting your product .even with the service and quality issues that have plagued you guys from the start.its not our fault .its your business your responsible for the situation not the customers.if i ran my business like this id be outta business by now..

[BIGBIRD]

Originally Posted by BT@VF

3 guys is enough huh? 1 running the mills, one packaging and procuring, and one answering e-mails and pm's... ummm if I'm not there there is not time for one of the guys that has a full day to also answer the 60+ e-mails and 25+ pm's I get per day and process orders. I swear, two days without contact and the whole world falls apart, rant on, bash on!

just a thought, but did you ever think of stopping preselling, and back orders and just shut down just long enough to get caught up and fix everyones problems? then start up again, it may solve alot of problems, including mine, im still waiting for an e-mail or pm.

[BT@VF]

Originally Posted by colonelangus

excuses excuses ..if you want to make a product that everyone wants or has to have then suck it up and get them out to those who paid,and those that have issues..your very lucky to have so many people wanting your product .even with the service and quality issues that have plagued you guys from the start.its not our fault .its your business your responsible for the situation not the customers.if i ran my business like this id be outta business by now..

The problem is some of you will PM me and if you don't get a response in 24 hrs you come on the board and start bashing and then I waste time responding to the nonsense instead of keeping up with e-mails, well no longer! VF no longer takes pre-orders or direct sales at all, please refer to our website for authorized VF dealers. All customer dig orders to current day will be shipped out by tomorrow. You will no longer see me on the board defending our product/service. Do not bother to pm me your info or questions, email sales@visionaryfabrication.com and your situation will be addressed in what I consider to be a timely manner (1-2 BUSINNES DAYS). Any exsisting PM's will be answered today.

[DISTURBIN' tha PEACE]

I guess you guys missed the part that they were OVERWHELMED by pre-orders.

Have some patience. I know they're working as hard as they can.

Originally Posted by BT@VF

The problem is some of you will PM me and if you don't get a response in 24 hrs you come on the board and start bashing and then I waste time responding to the nonsense instead of keeping up with e-mails, well no longer! VF no longer takes pre-orders or direct sales at all, please refer to our website for authorized VF dealers. All customer dig orders to current day will be shipped out by tomorrow. You will no longer see me on the board defending our product/service. Do not bother to pm me your info or questions, email sales@visionaryfabrication.com and your situation will be addressed in what I consider to be a timely manner (1-2 BUSINNES DAYS). Any exsisting PM's will be answered today.

Sorry to hear that. You guys have always been great. Some of these assholes just don't apreciate the innovation that you brought to us. I call it the RTR phenominon.

[tqcookie]

Originally Posted by BT@VF

The problem is some of you will PM me and if you don't get a response in 24 hrs you come on the board and start bashing and then I waste time responding to the nonsense instead of keeping up with e-mails, well no longer! VF no longer takes pre-orders or direct sales at all, please refer to our website for authorized VF dealers. All customer dig orders to current day will be shipped out by tomorrow. You will no longer see me on the board defending our product/service. Do not bother to pm me your info or questions, email sales@visionaryfabrication.com and your situation will be addressed in what I consider to be a timely manner (1-2 BUSINNES DAYS). Any exsisting PM's will be answered today.

Good thing about this is now you will have more time to hopefully work on the quality control issues.

[O.C.D.]

Originally Posted by BT@VF

The problem is some of you will PM me and if you don't get a response in 24 hrs you come on the board and start bashing and then I waste time responding to the nonsense instead of keeping up with e-mails, well no longer! VF no longer takes pre-orders or direct sales at all, please refer to our website for authorized VF dealers. All customer dig orders to current day will be shipped out by tomorrow. You will no longer see me on the board defending our product/service. Do not bother to pm me your info or questions, email sales@visionaryfabrication.com and your situation will be addressed in what I consider to be a timely manner (1-2 BUSINNES DAYS). Any exsisting PM's will be answered today.

Didn't say anything until now, but this is bull$hit! Now because of threads like this we that are patient and accepting of life lose out cause of others. This is really going to put a damper on VF's contributions here. Hell, it might even prevent them from wanting to help any of us again. Sad thing these forums can be.

[Josh87]

Originally Posted by Doc J33P

Didn't say anything until now, but this is bull$hit! Now because of threads like this we that are patient and accepting of life lose out cause of others. This is really going to put a damper on VF's contributions here. Hell, it might even prevent them from wanting to help any of us again. Sad thing these forums can be.

I wouldn't blame it on the fourm. The only blame that can be placed is on VF. That is what happens when you run a business like that. Say what you mean, and do what you say. Don't put "ships two weeks from purchase" if in know way that will ever happen.

[frizzen]

Not that it'll matter to anyone. I, for one, am happy with my VF Dig.

I hit the preorder it seemed like it took forever to get, big deal everyone else wanted one too. Even though they missed tapping a hole, my drive collar didn't fit my outdrive without some filling, and I need to tear down and take a micrometer to the brass shaft; I'm happy with it. hmmm, I wanted an excuse to get a good tap&die set anyway, I'm not scared of a file set and that got me a tighter tolerence than they would have bothered with, and it was an early production run with hundreds of people eagerly annoying them about when theirs would arrive.

I'll definately cut them slack, it's a good product, that with a little tweaking becomes a great product. The longer they make them, the better they'll get. Or they'll get fed up with how some of us crawlers act and move on. Our loss, their engineering seems pretty good. If it were a 1/1 scale product, I wouldn't be quite as relaxed about problems, but I've got a lot more riding on a car/bike/whatever than I do on a ~5lb 1/10 toy that has a top speed under 10mph. I might loose arbitrary points against other guys playing with toys.

Bottom line, It sure is one hell of a lot better dig than I could produce on my own for $70. I'm more upset they didn't green anodize it

[rocktoy]

Man you know I seriously looked at getting one of these but I saw pics of a broken output and it kinda scared me away being I'm really hard on my stuff.

I have been watching alot of the drama here though. Seriously you guys need to back down just a bit. Seems they realized they cant keep up with the demand or are barely keeping up with it and trying to make some changes to help both you and they. Everyone seems to want their stuff now but complains if its got the tiniest problem. Relax and give them some time and I'm sure any small bugs will be worked out.

Dam RTR crap started this I swear. You wouldnt have heard half this crap before when you had to make your crawler

[diggerj]

Originally Posted by BT@VF

The problem is some of you will PM me and if you don't get a response in 24 hrs you come on the board and start bashing and then I waste time responding to the nonsense instead of keeping up with e-mails, well no longer! VF no longer takes pre-orders or direct sales at all, please refer to our website for authorized VF dealers. All customer dig orders to current day will be shipped out by tomorrow. You will no longer see me on the board defending our product/service. Do not bother to pm me your info or questions, email sales@visionaryfabrication.com and your situation will be addressed in what I consider to be a timely manner (1-2 BUSINNES DAYS). Any exsisting PM's will be answered today.

First I find it annoying and unprofessional that we have to discuss issues with the product that we purchased from your company on this forum. All of the quality issues should have been handled by e-mail or by phone. I was forced to discuss my issues with you here because your company will not return e-mail even though you clam that you do. Contacting you here was my last resort!
Second your complaint about receiving pm and e-mail bashing your product and company is ridiculous. You have produced some product that does not work or is machined incorrectly and sold it to customers. Customers that have contacted you about the problems and you ignore for days. You commented that a timely manner to reply is 1 to 2 business days. You have still not responded to my original e-mail sent out on 4/30/08.
As to people that are supporting VF in this thread that were sold a product that works. Start a new thread to discuss your success with there product! I cannot believe that you people support a company that has produced a defective product and is being highly unprofessional about handling the occurrences. This might be a hobby however if I purchase a product I expect it to work as advertised. If I know going in that I will have to make modifications that is fine however if I purchase a “bolt on product” and find that it is defective the manufacturer should replace the parts not complain that they are to busy, sick or understaffed.
As I have commented some time back I really like the look of this Dig and once I have received the correctly manufactured parts I have no doubt that it will work. It is a shame that your company cannot be more professional about handling your mistakes. It would be money well spent for you to hire customer service personnel so that you can spend your time designing new innovative products as it is clear that you do not have the needed experience to deal with quality issues released to the public.

[EHeye]

Originally Posted by DISTURBIN' tha PEACE

I guess you guys missed the part that they were OVERWHELMED by pre-orders.

Have some patience. I know they're working as hard as they can.


Sorry to hear that. You guys have always been great. Some of these assholes just don't apreciate the innovation that you brought to us. I call it the RTR phenominon.

So them being overwhelmed by preorders is the consumers fault how?

I have seen a few of these digs come out of their "packaging" with parts missing, bolts scattered, etc. If say they have 1000 preorders at $50 for the dig... I think they can afford some proper packaging and not some ziplock bags that can pop open.

[ElkySS]

I would just like to say that I have e-mailed them several times as well. Difference being that I did get a response from them each time. We had an entire conversation about the dig unit and making sure I set it up right the first time. So far so good. I also e-mailed them today about the servo stretcher (not even their product) and they helped me make sure I did that right as well. From where I sit they are a great bunch of guys that have made a great product that like any other new product is going to have a few speed bumps.
I guess it is all in how you talk to people. If any of the VF guys are still reading this, thanks for the product and I hope to see a lot more wonderful products from you in the future.

[Tanis]

I'm sorry to hear that Brock, I for one appreciate that you guys took the time to listen to our suggestions on here when engineering the dig, and changed things to make it better than it would have been.

It's too bad some people can't understand real life situations, and can only think about themselves, instead of putting themselves in your shoes for minute.

[diggerj]

Originally Posted by ElkySS

I would just like to say that I have e-mailed them several times as well. Difference being that I did get a response from them each time. We had an entire conversation about the dig unit and making sure I set it up right the first time. So far so good. I also e-mailed them today about the servo stretcher (not even their product) and they helped me make sure I did that right as well. From where I sit they are a great bunch of guys that have made a great product that like any other new product is going to have a few speed bumps.
I guess it is all in how you talk to people. If any of the VF guys are still reading this, thanks for the product and I hope to see a lot more wonderful products from you in the future.

This is a copy of the first e-mail I sent them on 4-30-08. I see nothing offencive in it.
"Don
I just received the dig system from Visionary Fabrication for the AX-10. I have run into a problem putting it together the drive cog will not install over the out drive. Either the drive cog has been machined to small or the outdrive has not been machined enough.
Your help on this matter would be great.

Thanks"

[AX10 Sean]

Originally Posted by ElkySS

I would just like to say that I have e-mailed them several times as well. Difference being that I did get a response from them each time. We had an entire conversation about the dig unit and making sure I set it up right the first time. So far so good. I also e-mailed them today about the servo stretcher (not even their product) and they helped me make sure I did that right as well. From where I sit they are a great bunch of guys that have made a great product that like any other new product is going to have a few speed bumps.
I guess it is all in how you talk to people. If any of the VF guys are still reading this, thanks for the product and I hope to see a lot more wonderful products from you in the future.

X2^