Roc 412 in wraith compared to brushed

[Adams]

I was always against brushless from reading on RCC. After buying multiple HH brushed motors that I was happy with. I started wearing them out monthly (I drive a lot, and hard) I didnt buy the expensive handwound motors just the crawlmaster experts/sports and the torquemaster expert/sport, I used 35t 27t and 13t. The 13t crawlmaster was my favorite. It wore out and HH was out of stock so I thought I would try brushless instead of getting into a comm lathe.

I went with MMP with roc412. I wont be buying brushed motors ever again. Everything about brushless is better, except the price. Which in my case would have been cheaper in the long run cause all the brushes i wore down.
Keep in mind, I have spent a lot of time on my rig setting it up and driving it. For me the feel of brushless is way better. 70% of the time I crawl slowly, the other I do doughnuts and hill climb. I used to only crawl, thanks to wheel speed I kinda have a multipurpose rig.

[skerb]

I had a roc 412 with mmp in my scaler for a year or so and switched back to brushed. Brushed is more maintenance, but I have not been able to tune a brushless setup for controlled descents. Up hill and flat the brushless had gobs of torque and precision, but going downhill it was either drag braking or freewheeling, I could not get it to slowly crawl down a steep hill.

[12stepRC]

Well guys I can officially say I'm more confused now than I was when I made this thread, i understand the pros and cons but I can't decide which one to get :/

[Tmaxxed]

My pro4 3300 in my wraith seems very good for crawling. It seems to be fine on descents and has lots of torque. And it's plenty fast, for a wraith anyway.

[skerb]

Originally Posted by Tmaxxed

My pro4 3300 in my wraith seems very good for crawling. It seems to be fine on descents and has lots of torque. And it's plenty fast, for a wraith anyway.

Can you drive as slow as you like down a very steep incline? If so you are the first I have seen. Most alternate between wiggling the steering to initiate it to roll slowly, or tap the throttle and hope for the best.

[Adams]

Originally Posted by skerb

I had a roc 412 with mmp in my scaler for a year or so and switched back to brushed. Brushed is more maintenance, but I have not been able to tune a brushless setup for controlled descents. Up hill and flat the brushless had gobs of torque and precision, but going downhill it was either drag braking or freewheeling, I could not get it to slowly crawl down a steep hill.

I have my drag brake set to 30% IIRC then I use my brakes to descend slowly. At first my drag brake was set at 213% quickly went down to 80% then I noticed that going downhill it was either freewheel or stopped. It was horrible. Then i went to 30%, with slight downhill resistance but a bit too fast if you need to drop slowly. Thats when I use the brakes to descend slow.
Something to try if you haven't already.

[Tmaxxed]

Originally Posted by skerb

Can you drive as slow as you like down a very steep incline? If so you are the first I have seen. Most alternate between wiggling the steering to initiate it to roll slowly, or tap the throttle and hope for the best.

Well I do have an aggressive driving style so maybe I just don't really notice it. I'm usually not thinking about driving slow with my pro4 on 3s, but I've never had an issue going downhill.

[skerb]

In comps with technical gates on a descent is the only time I really had an issue.

@adams. I did exactly that, but it still wasn't up to my expectations, so I went back to brushed.

[67mustang]

You have to have deep gearing to keep it from freewheeling. I have a roc 412 1200kv in a heavy 1/6 hummer with 11:1 gearing and its like a brushed motor downhill when in 1st gear with an ax2 rc4wd trans. Great control.

With my other rig, I use drag brake @ ~40% to decend...and that's on a roc412 1800kv with 9/66 gearing.

While brushless downhill isn't great, crawling downhill isn't great fun anyway.

[btango05]

Originally Posted by 12stepRC

Well guys I can officially say I'm more confused now than I was when I made this thread, i understand the pros and cons but I can't decide which one to get :/

You have compelling arguments from both sides. No matter what direction you take you're going to wonder if you should have went the other. My advice is take the brushless direction first being that it's more expensive...ROC 412 3100 or 2300kv...MMP....Castle Link and upgrade the transmission and slipper/pinion gear. Later on if you decide to try a brushed motor all you'll need is the motor. Good luck friend!

[12stepRC]

Thanks, I was kinda thinking just to buy both off the bat and be done with it, because I don't really have a budget

[skerb]

Originally Posted by 67mustang

You have to have deep gearing to keep it from freewheeling. I have a roc 412 1200kv in a heavy 1/6 hummer with 11:1 gearing and its like a brushed motor downhill when in 1st gear with an ax2 rc4wd trans. Great control.

With my other rig, I use drag brake @ ~40% to decend...and that's on a roc412 1800kv with 9/66 gearing.

While brushless downhill isn't great, crawling downhill isn't great fun anyway.

Mine was an 1800 geared 11/87 48p

[12stepRC]

Can someone please direct me to a thread that explains gearing

[Johnnysplits]

I haven't seen this question yet which is important to me...can the thing be waterproofed successfully?

[btango05]

Originally Posted by 12stepRC

Can someone please direct me to a thread that explains gearing

http://www.robinsonracing.com/gearratio.html

Harley has a video in which he uses Corrosion X and RTV sealant to waterproof the ROC...according to him he's used the method and hasn't had any problems...

Poison Spyder Wraith - Waterproofing Brushless - …: http://youtu.be/Df_Ye9g-KMg

[12stepRC]

Thanks man

[Mudman02]

I put a crawlmaster 13t in my wraith and it is great for crawling! Has torque for days but I'm more of a trail/hills guy so been thinking about a roc412


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[12stepRC]

Is there a reason people seem to prefer the mmp as an esc over the tekin rs gen 2 ?

[axial 4x4 crawler]

Originally Posted by Mudman02

I put a crawlmaster 13t in my wraith and it is great for crawling! Has torque for days but I'm more of a trail/hills guy so been thinking about a roc412


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Stay with the CrawlMaster 13t..the roc 412 is not as good as others put it. I read that its jumpy and has not much low end torque..I though about the 412 a time or two but after reading a thread review over it..no thanks I decided to go with Holmes.

[axial 4x4 crawler]

Originally Posted by 12stepRC

Is there a reason people seem to prefer the mmp as an esc over the tekin rs gen 2 ?

Maybe because it has a few different features compared to the rs. I thought the same thing, the rs is great and so is the MMP..I guess its personal opinion...I personally would go with the rs. My wraith has a rs gen 1 with a gen 2 10.5t redline motor (4,650kv) running 3s and gearing is 80/16..I tell ya that thing can move and the motor doesn't over heat.