U.S. Tax System explained in Beer

[Duuuuuuuude]

Originally Posted by rock hard

What???
you sound like my friend dad (socialist)

No,people should benifit from thier labors IMO
I dont want to be self efficiant

I hate working in the garden (we have a large one)

I would rather buy black eyed peas,green beans,squash.

Onions,okra,tomatoes,lettuce,mustard greens aint to bad.
But then there is always yrs that are bad,too much rain,not enough rain.
Thewn we buy all our produce
and fruit is hard to just pull out f your ass

I damn sure dont want to see my wife laboring to make clothes



I prefer wortk hard,and pay for what I want

you may not like that syatem,but it suits me just fine

Socialism is another way of control and oppresion, just like capitalism. Those in power do what they can to keep it, even at the expense of those that do not.

I'm not talking about robbing people of their possesions or dignity or diminishing their way of life. I'm not talking about moving everyone into community housing or wearing uniforms or bullshit like that. I'm talking about a completely different mindset as opposed to what we have now.

If you don't like growing vegetables, fine, there are plenty of people who do. You can get it from them.

I don't know anything about deep sea fishing, but if I wanted to, I could come find you and make arrangements to do so, and you'd be happy to do it because as you said, that is something that you feel would make you happy.

You feel you need rewarded monetarily for your hard work because that is the system we live in.

If everyone in your community had a job to do that kept your little group alive and well and happy, then it would get done. Everyones reward would be a comfortable life with the freedom to do what really makes them happy.

If you want to spend a few days at sea taking freinds or neighbors fishing (because you enjoy it and its what you want to do), call up the marina, reserve a boat, and go do it. No money involved. When you're done you bring it back and go home. Someone who is trained to repair and maintain the boat (because they enjoy it and its what they want to do) will get it ready for the next person.

There are more than enough people who want to do things usefull in this world. But not all of those things have a useful wage attached to them. Still, every job is important in some way.

I'll let you in on something...about why I brought this up...

I'm at the point where I am going to have to let my business go. As much as I hate to do it, I'm going to have to find something that pays better. Not because of things I want, but because of things I need. Its killing me because I truly love what I do (I would do it for free if I could) and the people I get to meet doing it. I also love where I live. Unfortunately, where I live was hit very hard by the recession and there really are no better jobs to be had. Companies that laid 50% or more of their workforce off 2 years ago are just now rehiring those people...very slowly. So that means I'm going to have to leave this place that I love. For money. I'm going to have to stop doing what I love. For money. I'm going to have to raise my cost of living. For money. I'm going to have to uproot my family and make my son leave all his freinds behind, again. For money.

Do you see what the problem is? Its not that I don't work hard when there is work to be had, I do. Its not that I don't love where I'm at, (its reasonably priced and really quite beautiful), I do. Its not that I hate my job or the school system sucks or my sons freinds are assholes. Its none of those. Its none of that at all. Its because of money. I'm going to have to sacrifice nearly everything I've found that really makes me and my family happy because, even as simply and cheaply as we live, I simply cannot afford to do it any more. And to me that is wrong.

[rock hard]

Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude

Socialism is another way of control and oppresion, just like capitalism. Those in power do what they can to keep it, even at the expense of those that do not.

I'm not talking about robbing people of their possesions or dignity or diminishing their way of life. I'm not talking about moving everyone into community housing or wearing uniforms or bullshit like that. I'm talking about a completely different mindset as opposed to what we have now.

If you don't like growing vegetables, fine, there are plenty of people who do. You can get it from them.

I don't know anything about deep sea fishing, but if I wanted to, I could come find you and make arrangements to do so, and you'd be happy to do it because as you said, that is something that you feel would make you happy.

You feel you need rewarded monetarily for your hard work because that is the system we live in.

If everyone in your community had a job to do that kept your little group alive and well and happy, then it would get done. Everyones reward would be a happy comfortable life.

If you want to spend a few days at sea taking freinds or neighbors fishing (because you enjoy it and its what you want to do), call up the marina, reserve a boat, and go do it. No money involved. When you're done you bring it back and go home. Someone who is trained to repair and maintain the boat (because they enjoy it and its what they want to do) will get it ready for the next person.



I'll let you in on something...about why I brought this up...

I'm at the point where I am going to have to let my business go. As much as I hate to do it, I'm going to have to find something that pays better. Not because of things I want, because of things I need. Its killing me because I truly love what I do (I would do it for free if I could) and the people I get to meet doing it. I also love where I live. Unfortunately, where I live was hit very hard by the recession and there really are no better jobs to be had. Companies that laid 50% or more of their workforce off 2 years ago are just now rehiring those people...very slowly. So that means I'm going to have to leave this place that I love. For money. I'm going to have to stop doing what I love. For money. I'm going to have to raise my cost of living. For money. I'm going to have to uproot my family and make my son leave all his freinds behind, again. For money.

Do you see what the problem is?

It will never work in todays wold though( I hate to be pecamistic )

Not cuz there isnt enough other who think like minded,but the time for life like that has already passed.

Our country has been threatened from its creation,but now the need to fund a certain level of security requires money. That money comes from taxes,if you have no money,thay will take your belongings,if you have no belongings, they will take your food.

Nope,this is hard times,and having a job you love that pays is hard to find.
I love what I do,I wouldt do it for free though
I build pools,I meet people and travel the state and the money is good

But when the banks quite lending to peole with 700 scores it killed our buisness.

Not all people will be able to do what they enjoy in your picture either.

There will be positions that need filled somehwere
maybe you will need more farmers,and not enough people wanting to farm

maybe you will need someone to slaughter,and not enough people wanting to do it.

so in anycase there will thise who for whatever reason,for whatever amount of time.doing something they prefer not,rather it be for the benifite of the community,or the benifite of thier family.

I already do what you talk about now actually.
its a matter of looking at it

what your talking about people will share,trade for what they need

Only I'm trading money instead of goods or service for my needs.
I allready perform a service,only instead of trading for somthing I may or maynot need
(whatever the pople have to offer)
I do it for money,and its got value all around the globe.

There is no reason to go against the grain

[Duuuuuuuude]

Originally Posted by rock hard

what your talking about people will share,trade for what they need

Only I'm trading money instead of goods or service for my needs.

Look at it like this: You're invited to a pot-luck dinner. Everybody brings what they can to the table, be it big or small, everybody eats and enjoys the meal. Recipies are swapped, cooking tips are given.

If people show up without food, then everyone suffers. The empty handers either need to get with the program or they can hit the road. As time goes on, the empty handers become a rare occurance because they simply will not survive.

[Duuuuuuuude]

Originally Posted by rock hard

There is no reason to go against the grain

If you were on a bus bound for hell, would you sit there with your hand in your lap saying "oh well", or would you do what you could to get off and find a better way?

[Reflection]

Originally Posted by RANOVRU

Anybody in the market for some pocket lint? (pm me if you got anything to trade)

This is not the classifieds section.....

[ROCKEDUP RICKY]

Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude

If you were on a bus bound for hell, would you sit there with your hand in your lap saying "oh well", or would you do what you could to get off and find a better way?

This sounds funny coming from you. Find the better way before you get on that bus.

[Duuuuuuuude]

Originally Posted by ROCKEDUP RICKY

This sounds funny coming from you. Find the better way before you get on that bus.

No more 3 am discussions for me I guess...wtf was I thinking?

[RANOVRU]

Duuude, the day you convince the rest of the world/country to quit their day jobs, go home & grow vegetables, and become self sufficient in order to help themselves & community, Ill be the first to join suit.

Until that day, we will continue to live in a capitalist dog eat dog world. And I will do what I need to make a dollar & survive.


I dont hate on the rich. Whether its a harverd degree or hustling on the streets, everyone has to work for theirs. I think most people content to live in a world of capitalism would agree that that is something to strive to achieve.

[Duuuuuuuude]

Originally Posted by RANOVRU

Duuude, the day you convince the rest of the world/country to quit their day jobs, go home & grow vegetables, and become self sufficient in order to help themselves & community, Ill be the first to join suit.

Until that day, we will continue to live in a capitalist dog eat dog world. And I will do what I need to make a dollar & survive.

Yeah, it ain't gonna happen, and if it does, it won't be soon. Though I guess I could always put together a hippie commune. I'll be sure and send you a pm once its up and running.

Originally Posted by RANOVRU

I dont hate on the rich. Whether its a harverd degree or hustling on the streets, everyone has to work for theirs. I think most people content to live in a world of capitalism would agree that that is something to strive to achieve.

I don't hate the rich either, most of them anyway. What I do hate is the disgusting amount of excess that some of them participate in. Spending obscene amounts of money on stuff just to say they have it is just flat out stupid and a complete and total waste.

[paintballer9876]

Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude

Yeah, it ain't gonna happen, and if it does, it won't be soon. Though I guess I could always put together a hippie commune. I'll be sure and send you a pm once its up and running.



I don't hate the rich either, most of them anyway. What I do hate is the disgusting amount of excess that some of them participate in. Spending obscene amounts of money on stuff just to say they have it is just flat out stupid and a complete and total waste.

But isnt that their choice? excess is completely relative I have a $1300-1400 into my crawler i dont need it survive, i enjoy it because i can meet knew people and have a good time, there are much cheaper ways to do this but its what i like. I have 2 24" monitors on my desktop which is excess but when it comes to writing a research paper for school it makes things much easier to have the internet open on one monitor and word on the other. All this from someones eyes is considered excess, the fact that i have cell phone that does more than just make calls is excess, and the fact that im on a computer typing right now is excess. Non of this is needed to survive, food, warm clothing, shelter and companionship is all that is needed for any human to survive both physically and mentally. But then we are stuck in the stone age since we dont need the gun for better hunting since the spear will still kill an animal.

So with this paragraph i ask who decides what is considered excess?

with that said i like the idea of the barter system but its not something that would work in todays society, there is to many people and to many long distance spending.

[Duuuuuuuude]

It is their choice. Its not against the law. They can do it if they want.

I guess that "wasteful" would have been a more accurate word.

You could still do the barter or a non-monetary system over long distances. It wouldn't be any different than it is today.

[rock hard]

Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude

It is their choice. Its not against the law. They can do it if they want.

I guess that "wasteful" would have been a more accurate word.

You could still do the barter or a non-monetary system over long distances. It wouldn't be any different than it is today.

The problem is theta 2 people must agree an what they are trading is of equal value.

And like farming,if you decide you need some extra help,how would you plan to compensate them for thier works??

And like a tractor,what would the manufactures of parts want for thier product
They may not need what you have to offer.

Currency has been around a long time for a reason,it works well.

Everyone agrees to a certain extent its value,and therefore it works well for
trading.
Instead of negotioating how many aplles,pecans and hay you can give me for
my horse,you can just give me cash.

[Duuuuuuuude]

Originally Posted by rock hard

The problem is theta 2 people must agree an what they are trading is of equal value.

And like farming,if you decide you need some extra help,how would you plan to compensate them for thier works??

And like a tractor,what would the manufactures of parts want for thier product
They may not need what you have to offer.

Currency has been around a long time for a reason,it works well.

Everyone agrees to a certain extent its value,and therefore it works well for
trading.
Instead of negotioating how many aplles,pecans and hay you can give me for
my horse,you can just give me cash.

Thats why its pointless to replace the monetary system with the barter system. Do away with both.

[rock hard]

Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude

Thats why its pointless to replace the monetary system with the barter system. Do away with both.

The system you mentioned would work the same way,except there is no payment of anykind as I recall.
I would take people out on the water just cuz I enjoy it so much........
But it costs money just to crank the boat,much less stay out for a full day.
There is maintenance too. and other costs,like the BOAT.

So how would one make a living?
I would get food,clothing,ect how???
who would give it to me??

[paintballer9876]

Originally Posted by rock hard

The system you mentioned would work the same way,except there is no payment of anykind as I recall.
I would take people out on the water just cuz I enjoy it so much........
But it costs money just to crank the boat,much less stay out for a full day.
There is maintenance too. and other costs,like the BOAT.

So how would one make a living?
I would get food,clothing,ect how???
who would give it to me??

Ok i see what duuuuuude was trying to say, so think of it like this rock hard you go to the grocery store and take the grocery's that you need, you need gas go to the gas station and get it. You order something from rpp they send it to you with no money transactions. Everyone would have their place in society, if you cut your leg you go to the hospital and they treat you, no worries of healthcare costs. This would require a huge mindset change by everyone involved so people didnt take advantage of the system (ex. dont work). The only issue would people need to be stimulated by something, it would be hard to go work knowing that there is nothing you are working for, would it be forced 40 hours weeks? I like the idea but the only way it would work is if a society was essentially raised into this, just going to the world right now and saying there is no money would result in a lot less people to feed.

[rock hard]

Originally Posted by paintballer9876

Ok i see what duuuuuude was trying to say, so think of it like this rock hard you go to the grocery store and take the grocery's that you need, you need gas go to the gas station and get it. You order something from rpp they send it to you with no money transactions. Everyone would have their place in society, if you cut your leg you go to the hospital and they treat you, no worries of healthcare costs. This would require a huge mindset change by everyone involved so people didnt take advantage of the system (ex. dont work). The only issue would people need to be stimulated by something, it would be hard to go work knowing that there is nothing you are working for, would it be forced 40 hours weeks? I like the idea but the only way it would work is if a society was essentially raised into this, just going to the world right now and saying there is no money would result in a lot less people to feed.

I see no way it would work
lets just assume..........
So I'm 18 and fresh out of school,I want a car.......
so I go to who ever has them and just pick one right

drive off and go to the gas station.......just fill up right.......
no money or trading involved right.

Now I'm hungry.....so just pull into the farmers market and snag some
fruit...no trading involved right....

Now,how do I contribute???
who makes me contribute???
who decides if I have contributed enough???


It sounds like communism to me,everything will be provided according to your needs.
You will contribut according to your ability

it sounds good on papper,but it simply doesnty work.

[Duuuuuuuude]

Originally Posted by paintballer9876

Ok i see what duuuuuude was trying to say, so think of it like this rock hard you go to the grocery store and take the grocery's that you need, you need gas go to the gas station and get it. You order something from rpp they send it to you with no money transactions. Everyone would have their place in society, if you cut your leg you go to the hospital and they treat you, no worries of healthcare costs..

Ding!

Originally Posted by paintballer9876

This would require a huge mindset change by everyone involved so people didnt take advantage of the system (ex. dont work). The only issue would people need to be stimulated by something, it would be hard to go work knowing that there is nothing you are working for, would it be forced 40 hours weeks? I like the idea but the only way it would work is if a society was essentially raised into this, just going to the world right now and saying there is no money would result in a lot less people to feed.

If people didn't feel like contributing, then they wouldn't get help when they needed it.

As far as stimulation goes, in nearly any career you'll find people that love what they do. Keep looking and you'll find people doing things they don't love and wish they were off doing something else.

No forced labor, though there probably would have to be some sort of carrer counceling for youth to get them started towards where they need or want to go. How much or how long you would would be a balance between what you are willing/able to do and how large the work force is. A large and efficient workforce would result in quite a bit of free time.

And yes, it would be a massive mindset change.

Originally Posted by rock hard

I see no way it would work
lets just assume..........
So I'm 18 and fresh out of school,I want a car.......
so I go to who ever has them and just pick one right

drive off and go to the gas station.......just fill up right.......
no money or trading involved right.

Now I'm hungry.....so just pull into the farmers market and snag some
fruit...no trading involved right....

Now,how do I contribute???
who makes me contribute???
who decides if I have contributed enough???


It sounds like communism to me,everything will be provided according to your needs.
You will contribut according to your ability

it sounds good on papper,but it simply doesnty work.

Its not communism because its not government regulated. The basic principal is that if you cannot sustain a contributing society, you will not survive.

You would contribute by doing someting that perpetuates or benifits the society you live in.

Instead of being brought up to chase money to make a living, you would be raised to do your part and benifit from doing so.

Contributing is dependant on what you are able to do. If you're goofing off more than you're working, then you'll most likely get in trouble by those around you.

[ThinkTank]

Found something interesting:

"A century ago, the average man had 72 wants... 14 were necessities.
Today the average man has 423 wants... 92 are necessities. "

The article was from 1956..

[Duuuuuuuude]

Originally Posted by ThinkTank

Found something interesting:

"A century ago, the average man had 72 wants... 14 were necessities.
Today the average man has 423 wants... 92 are necessities. "

The article was from 1956..

Do the list the "necessities"? Thats pretty interesting...

[ThinkTank]

A friend sent to me, I tried looking online for it but didn't find it. I got it wrong.

"Back in 1956, a news columnist wrote: “It is estimated that a century ago the average man had 72 wants, of which 16 were regarded as necessities. Today, the average man is estimated to have 474 wants, 94 of which are regarded as necessities. A century ago, 200 articles were urged upon the average man by salesmanship—but today there are 32,000 articles which require sales resistance. Man’s necessities are few—his wants, infinite.”