Presidential election...

[JatoTheRipper]

Originally Posted by ElChupacabra

I'm so sick of hearing this. Nobody wants to take away your guns. Democrats are lobbying for more common sense gun laws which something like 80% of Americans agree with. I own guns, I carry a gun, I love guns. I don't feel my 2nd amendment rights are under attack at all. Do I want an AR? Sure, but I choose to spend most my fun money on toy trucks instead of guns. Would I be sad if I wasn't allowed to own an AR? Nope.

I live just outside Philly in Norristown which recently dropped out of the top 100 most dangerous cities in the US. It's a garbage town, very unsafe. I bought my first handgun when I was delivering pizzas in town while I was in college a while back. If anybody should feel unsafe it's me, but I don't. Am I afraid somebody is going to barge into my house at night? Not really. Seems pretty unlikely. I choose to worry about much more pressing issues.

I realize I'm very much in the minority with a lot of my views on this site. That's fine. I legitimately enjoy hearing all sides of a discussion.

Sick of hearing the truth, huh? Do you pay attention to what's happening? Obama, Hillary, and other politicians have said we should look to Australia for our gun laws. Australia banned guns.

Like WHITE-TRASH said, these same morons want to start with things like limiting magazine capacities, limiting ammo purchases, putting serial numbers on bullet cases, etc. You know who these laws affect? Law abiding citizens. We can't and don't enforce current gun laws so how are we going to police even more laws? The answer is that we won't. Despite gun laws and gun bans, criminals will always have guns and then you'll be sitting in your house unprotected. This is common sense.

Guns are part of this country. They have never been an issue. Growing up, kids in my town would put their guns in the racks hanging in the window of their pickup truck. They'd drive these trucks, with guns on display, to school so they could go hunting at the end of the day. Nobody ever got shot. So what changed? The people. So let's start controlling the pieces of shit not the guns. And guns aren't an epidemic like little Obama and his moronic cronies would have you believe. They aren't even in the top 10 causes of death in 2015 unless you count them in suicide related deaths. But there are millions of ways to commit suicide. Getting rid of guns won't stop suicides.

Again, guns are an integral part of this country. They're in our Constitution. They're supposed to be protected by the Constitution. After all it says the right to own a gun shall not be infringed yet the government is not following that. So what's next? Should they infringe upon your freedom of religion? How about if they decide not to follow term limits? Where does it end?

Originally Posted by calcagno45

If AR's are banned today, what's to stop auto loading shotguns next? Or semi auto handguns?

Exactly.

Originally Posted by WHITE-TRASH

Serialized ammunition, magazine buttons, magazine capacity limits etc are not what I'd consider "common sense" gun laws. They are simply go around to limiting citizens ability to have weaponry, especially the ammunition laws which turn guns into clubs as ammunition becomes harder to get a hold of.

I'd like to see your 80% support for gun restrictions data. I'd absolutely believe it in your area but your area is not the whole country. Philly, chicago, la, San Fran, Seattle etc all have voters following lock step due to inner cut type environments. We out in the sticks are a whole lot different in our views.

I don't own an AR and I don't particularly want too but I'd be sad if someone wasn't able to buy one due to some big city idiocracy for sure.

Exactly.

Liberals in big cities want gun control. Republicans outside of the cities do not want gun control. I'd also question the 80% stat he threw in there.

EDIT:

Originally Posted by ElChupacabra

Excerpt from linked article below...

"Support for tougher gun laws rose to 55% in the newest poll -- the highest number since just one month after the shootings in Newtown, Connecticut, in January 2013. But support for specific gun control measures was very strong, with 92% saying they wanted expanded background checks, 87% supporting a ban for felons or people with mental health problems and 85% saying they would ban people on federal watchlists from buying guns. Among Republicans, that number is even higher -- 90% say they favor preventing people on the terror watch list or "no fly" list from buying a gun. That number is at 85% for Democrats. Versions of those proposals are being taken up in the Senate Monday evening -- but are all expected to fail along mostly party-line votes."

Poll: Gun control support spikes after shooting - CNNPolitics.com

You quoted CNN for your statistic? Do you realize CNN is extremely biased? They are a liberal news site. That's like using a "Should guns be banned?" poll from the NRA's site and expecting unbiased results.

[ElChupacabra]

Originally Posted by JatoTheRipper

You quoted CNN for your statistic? Do you realize CNN is extremely biased? They are a liberal news site. That's like using a "Should guns be banned?" poll from the NRA's site and expecting unbiased results.

Well, here's basically the same thing from Fox News...

"Majorities of American voters favor an array of new gun control proposals, although support for some measures has slipped in the last few months.

A new Fox News poll finds the most popular measure continues to be universal background checks: A large 85-percent majority of voters favors requiring checks on all gun buyers, including at gun shows and private sales. That includes most Democrats (90 percent), Republicans (83 percent) and independents (82 percent), as well as most of those living in a gun-owner household (81 percent).

There is also sizable public support for requiring mental health checks on gun buyers (72 percent) and background checks on ammunition purchases (70 percent).

Fox News poll: Majorities support new gun measures | Fox News

[wings_of_fire]

It all starts with regulation and ends with castration.

[arnieH]

What happened to the average guys piece of the corruption? I am saying government has its corruption; big business has theirs. Ours (the average guys) went out with the end of the labor unions. Time to bring back our piece of the corruption by re-introducing the labor union. That'll level the playing field.

Neither candidate has breathed more than a passing phrase in support of the average man getting a say in his work day. Does anyone really think either of the major candidates gives a rip about the average guy after the votes are cast and the polls close? Not a chance. We're on our own out here. At least, with labor union support, we'd have a least a snowballs chance in hell of making it.

Minimum wage support? Oh, yeah. Those states that have passed it increment it in by nickels and dimes over an extended period, usually five years. By then inflation will have eaten that up. Big deal.

arnieH

[NoobCrawler]

Originally Posted by ElChupacabra

I'm so sick of hearing this. Nobody wants to take away your guns. Democrats are lobbying for more common sense gun laws which something like 80% of Americans agree with. I own guns, I carry a gun, I love guns. I don't feel my 2nd amendment rights are under attack at all. Do I want an AR? Sure, but I choose to spend most my fun money on toy trucks instead of guns. Would I be sad if I wasn't allowed to own an AR? Nope.

I live just outside Philly in Norristown which recently dropped out of the top 100 most dangerous cities in the US. It's a garbage town, very unsafe. I bought my first handgun when I was delivering pizzas in town while I was in college a while back. If anybody should feel unsafe it's me, but I don't. Am I afraid somebody is going to barge into my house at night? Not really. Seems pretty unlikely. I choose to worry about much more pressing issues.

I realize I'm very much in the minority with a lot of my views on this site. That's fine. I legitimately enjoy hearing all sides of a discussion.

I don't ascribe to the "they're taking our guns!" hysteria, but there's no doubt the Democrats are hitting the gun crowd hard. They just keep writing new laws & chip away at us. Look no further than CA. Prop 63 is on the ballot...that's a mess. There's one bit that is quite the attack on AR owners. Previously, people could keep magazines that were pre 2000, as they were grandfathered. Not if 63 passes. CA is full of stupid gun laws. Mine, for sample, Ruger SR22 cannot be sold in CA anymore because Ruger didn't want to make some change by adding a part(can't remember exactly what it was...been a few years). Now, I say it's a stupid change because the gun was sold here for years.

Originally Posted by ElChupacabra

Excerpt from linked article below...

"Support for tougher gun laws rose to 55% in the newest poll -- the highest number since just one month after the shootings in Newtown, Connecticut, in January 2013. But support for specific gun control measures was very strong, with 92% saying they wanted expanded background checks, 87% supporting a ban for felons or people with mental health problems and 85% saying they would ban people on federal watchlists from buying guns. Among Republicans, that number is even higher -- 90% say they favor preventing people on the terror watch list or "no fly" list from buying a gun. That number is at 85% for Democrats. Versions of those proposals are being taken up in the Senate Monday evening -- but are all expected to fail along mostly party-line votes."

Poll: Gun control support spikes after shooting - CNNPolitics.com

These polls aren't accurate(I know, shocker) because they prey on the heightened emotions of the tragedy. It's right there in the header. Of course people will want tighter control after a shooting...especially when it's little kids being the victims.

I really would question that 83% ban on felons part...who wouldn't be for felons not having guns? Here in the real world, we know how that gun law works...

[calcagno45]

Originally Posted by NoobCrawler

I really would question that 83% ban on felons part...who wouldn't be for felons not having guns? Here in the real world, we know how that gun law works...

Other felons...

[NoobCrawler]

Originally Posted by arnieH

Minimum wage support? Oh, yeah. Those states that have passed it increment it in by nickels and dimes over an extended period, usually five years. By then inflation will have eaten that up. Big deal.

arnieH

Oops, thought I had this quoted too... Minimum wage hike...another dumb move. I'll use the local movie theatre as an example. I take advantage of cheap day, $5 tickets. Now thanks to the new minimum wage, prices have gone up. It's only $1 in respect to tickets, but it went up more at the already high concession stand. There's no doubt this is happening at other places, so I fail to see how paying people more to flip burgers will somehow relate to more money when the stuff we buy is costing more so businesses can cover the pay hike... Then there's the affect it's going to take on small businesses...

[ElChupacabra]

Originally Posted by NoobCrawler

Ruger SR22 cannot be sold in CA anymore because Ruger didn't want to make some change by adding a part(can't remember exactly what it was...been a few years). Now, I say it's a stupid change because the gun was sold here for years.

You're not missing out. The SR22 is awful. Way better 22 compacts available. It's just awkward to hold and shoot. But I get your point...

[WHITE-TRASH]

Originally Posted by NoobCrawler

Oops, thought I had this quoted too... Minimum wage hike...another dumb move. I'll use the local movie theatre as an example. I take advantage of cheap day, $5 tickets. Now thanks to the new minimum wage, prices have gone up. It's only $1 in respect to tickets, but it went up more at the already high concession stand. There's no doubt this is happening at other places, so I fail to see how paying people more to flip burgers will somehow relate to more money when the stuff we buy is costing more so businesses can cover the pay hike... Then there's the affect it's going to take on small businesses...

Ya know who wants the minimum wage raised more than anyone? Unions. Their wages are tied directly to minimum wage as a multiplier. You wonder why democrats are so adamant on raising the minimum wage? Unions are 100% behind democrats across the board, always have been.

[calcagno45]

Originally Posted by WHITE-TRASH

Ya know who wants the minimum wage raised more than anyone? Unions. Their wages are tied directly to minimum wage as a multiplier. You wonder why democrats are so adamant on raising the minimum wage? Unions are 100% behind democrats across the board, always have been.

Unions are the devil

[WHITE-TRASH]

Originally Posted by calcagno45

Unions are the devil

Some trade unions aren't terrible but the teamsters are absolute crap. They are the biggest group to give the decent ones a bad name.

[arnieH]

Originally Posted by WHITE-TRASH

Ya know who wants the minimum wage raised more than anyone? Unions. Their wages are tied directly to minimum wage as a multiplier. You wonder why democrats are so adamant on raising the minimum wage? Unions are 100% behind democrats across the board, always have been.

Yep. What ever it takes to jump start the stagnant wage cycle. Democratic Party at one time represented the working class. Not any more. Neither major party does.

Politicians have PAC's and Super PAC's. Business interests flood the DC beltway with lobby representatives. That leaves the ordinary citizen without any representation to improve their place in life. And guess what, elected representatives up to the highest level respond to where the money comes from. That leaves Joe the Plumber with the short, smelly end of the stick. So why shouldn't the ordinary citizen stick their foot in the door any which way they can?

Labor unions aren't the whole solution. And there is arguably as much as bad as there is good with them. But they can at least provide a voice where this is no voice now.

Neither major party candidate gets my vote, because I don't see any viable plan forwarded on their parts to even sustain, let alone improve, the lot of the working man.

arnieH

[WHITE-TRASH]

Ya know what jump starts a stagnant wage cycle better than any bargaining measure ever conceived? Bettering ones skills and not settling for less than you're actually worth, not what you think you're worth. My wage has gone up almost 80% in the last 5 years because I busted my ass and pushed for more money. I got the increases because I'm worth it to my employer plain as that. Now we have politicians pushing to get overtime laws onto farms which have been exempt from them for years. The extra money will be great for about 6 months when inflation catches up and we're paying 50% more for our food. That'll be sweet.

[mikemcE]

Nope, that puts small farmers out and corporate farms in, we pay more for less! That's progressive politics, helping the economy one crook at a time


Hang up and Drive

[Duuuuuuuude]

Originally Posted by JatoTheRipper

So what's next? Should they infringe upon your freedom of religion?

See the Trump/Pence and the Religious Rights "Religious Freedom". You'll only get freedom if you are of a particular religion...

Originally Posted by JatoTheRipper

Liberals in big cities want gun control. Republicans outside of the cities do not want gun control.

Big cities also tend to have waaaay more crime and violence than rural communities. I've lived in both, and understand why each group feels the way they do. I hear gun shots all day long here in rural Arkansas, and it doesn't bother me a bit. Gun shots when I lived in Phoenix was a completely different matter.

IMO it should be left to the state. No need for sweeping federal regulations that would affect states without heavy population density.

[JatoTheRipper]

Originally Posted by WHITE-TRASH

Ya know who wants the minimum wage raised more than anyone? Unions. Their wages are tied directly to minimum wage as a multiplier. You wonder why democrats are so adamant on raising the minimum wage? Unions are 100% behind democrats across the board, always have been.

Unions are organized crime. I think that's been proven over the years. It says a lot that the Democrats support them.

Plus, there's the whole lazy, entitled attitude.

Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude

See the Trump/Pence and the Religious Rights "Religious Freedom". You'll only get freedom if you are of a particular religion...



Big cities also tend to have waaaay more crime and violence than rural communities. I've lived in both, and understand why each group feels the way they do. I hear gun shots all day long here in rural Arkansas, and it doesn't bother me a bit. Gun shots when I lived in Phoenix was a completely different matter.

IMO it should be left to the state. No need for sweeping federal regulations that would affect states without heavy population density.

I'm atheist so freedom of religion isn't a major concern to me so I don't follow it closely.

I think the Second Amendment should be controlled by the federal government, period. There are already state-by-state laws. See California. There are even city laws that don't apply to the rest of the state. See Philadelphia. It's confusing for law abiding gun carriers.

[Duuuuuuuude]

Originally Posted by JatoTheRipper

I'm atheist so freedom of religion isn't a major concern to me so I don't follow it closely.

Pences Religious Freedom Restoration Act essentially allows people to get away with illegal/unconstitutional activity as long as they can find biblical justification for it. Kind of a Christian Sharia Law. Going on now in Indiana and being hinted at going onto the federal level should Trump win the race. Basically it's tossing part of the First Amendment in the garbage so one particular religious group can feel special.

So, messing with the 1st Amendment is fine, but don't touch the 2nd! Bunch of fake ass flag humping "patriots".

Originally Posted by JatoTheRipper

I think the Second Amendment should be controlled by the federal government, period. There are already state-by-state laws. See California. There are even city laws that don't apply to the rest of the state. See Philadelphia. It's confusing for law abiding gun carriers.

Meh, I dunno. It's messy to even think about.

[RANOVRU]

There is no such thing as "gun violence", only violence.

The problem with the folks pushing these "common sense" laws is they themselves lack it.

More laws are not the answer. Yet that is what is being pressed and thus it is very obvious what the end goal/agenda is.


These are very simple truths that many simply refuse to acknowledge.

[JatoTheRipper]

Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude

Pences Religious Freedom Restoration Act essentially allows people to get away with illegal/unconstitutional activity as long as they can find biblical justification for it. Kind of a Christian Sharia Law. Going on now in Indiana and being hinted at going onto the federal level should Trump win the race. Basically it's tossing part of the First Amendment in the garbage so one particular religious group can feel special.

So, messing with the 1st Amendment is fine, but don't touch the 2nd! Bunch of fake ass flag humping "patriots".




Meh, I dunno. It's messy to even think about.

That's messed up! Personally, I think the 1st and 2nd go hand in hand and neither should be bastardized.

[Duuuuuuuude]

Originally Posted by JatoTheRipper

That's messed up! Personally, I think the 1st and 2nd go hand in hand and neither should be bastardized.

Indeed. There is a reason they come first in the Constitution.


Just read an article today where a lady beat her kids (ages 3 and 6 iirc) black and blue with a wire coat hanger and got off because she cited Proverbs 13:24 (whoever spares the rod hates their children) as her defense. You can bet your sweet bippy that if she were Muslim and taking the Quran literally, she'd be in jail and her kids would be in foster care...