TCX-10 Trail Platform - listening axial?

[Arctic Fire]

Originally Posted by Richterat83

And I don't think you guys realize the price of molds. At our company, a small fairly simple mold (just the mold and not the molding euipment) is $10000 to $15000.

We know the cost of molds, but we also know how much money Axial has made on the SCX-10 over the years. We just want a little product development.

Originally Posted by Richterat83

And if you guys want tight tolerances on those parts, guess what, it costs more.

Don't need 'em. Current tolerances on axial products are acceptable. We're not talking about building an SCX with aftermarket superior parts like dinky and GCM. We're talking about the current level of product, just different.

Originally Posted by Richterat83

I don't know if axial has their own machinery or outsources but each part you guys request, picture minimum of $10000 per mold. Yeah they'll make a bunch of parts from that mold, but if they're selling plenty of what they have currently, why chance the money?

Because the company risks stagnating and dieing.

Originally Posted by Richterat83

Yeah there are aftermarket companies offering what you guys request, but odds are, they're not getting rich off it.

They do it for the love of the hobby

True, smaller companies are not, and they will always continue to offer a superior product no matter what axial does. Axial is getting rich off of what they're doing. Shouldn't they have some interest in where the hobby goes? they have the chance to lead, like they use to, not follow.

Axial is becoming the Blackberry of the RC world. Don't do any product development, and see how it works out in the end. Anybody buying any blackberry shares?

Originally Posted by Harley

You know why they make Jeeps? Because that's what people buy.

You know why people buy jeeps? because that's what axial makes. Not trying to be a weiner, but there's no way of knowing either way.


Here axial, I took the liberty to do your market research and product development for you. (man that makes me sound like a douche) I present a TCX-10. Put whatever Jeep you like on it.

[Richterat83]

Lol, OK, I have to tip. My hat, very nicely composed reply!

You will see no disagreement from me on your points.

[Arctic Fire]

ok good, Phew! I reread that post after I posted it and it sounded a little preachy. Could have gone either way.

[Jus]

Originally Posted by Arctic Fire

Because the company risks stagnating and dieing.

That's exactly what it feels like to me. They had 3 HUGE hits with the AX-10, scx-10, and Wraith... And now? Endless variations of the same thing... Feels like they stopped caring and are only in it for maximum cash and zero risk.

[Meatwad]

I don't understand the motivation of this thread. If you want your truck like your artist's rendering, make it that way.

Only way you'll see real innovation and change is competition, of which there really is none in the scale market. That's capitalism bro! Axial pretty much has it on lock down, and I'm pretty apathetic about it. As long as I can get parts and upgrades that do work, AND there's an awesome following from vendors how does it matter?

[Arctic Fire]

It's a good question, the motivation of this thread. I think ultimately we would like to put a fire under Axial's butt, to try to get them motivated to advance their product. I too am a loyal axial fan. If axial doesn't evolve, they may ultimately fail. Parts and upgrade vendors are a fickle bunch; try to buy MRC factory parts now, and it hasn't been gone that long. If a product leaves, so does the support. Don't be entirely apathetic about it, as it might end up effecting you more than you may think now. I am already looking at a Gelande for my next platform, as it is new and exciting, slowly, but surely, Axial will lose dollars from people like me, not because we don't like axial, but because axial doesn't excite us anymore.

The awesome following will only stay as long as there is new and exciting things going on. We too, are a fickle bunch.



Think of it this way, to make my truck look like the rendering up top, with no fabrication on my part (some of us live in apartments, and don't have access to a fabrication shop) I would be spending the price of a kit- $329.99, Let's stick with Delrin like axial would make, so Dinky Transfer case $101, Dinky GR7 Front mount $88, and a CMS RC4WD kit is $55. Shorten some wraith axles to give me SCX-10 size AR60's for $170, and the wraith interior for $40. That's $784 not including tax+shipping, just to get me where we want to be. I can almost buy two Gelandes, which I would do, and Axial would lose my business.

[badhoopty]

i woulndt hate it if axial made a more scale drivetrain or new axles, but things are flat out epic right now as far as vendors making cool stuff to bolt onto a vanilla scx.

Originally Posted by Harley

You know why they make Jeeps? Because that's what people buy.

im sick of jk wranglers... but if i had to pick just one vehicle for axial that would appeal to the masses, the jeep wrangler would be it.

you also have to consider the licensing and trademark agreements that have to be made. and jeep is real particular with their trademark... axial might want to do other bodies but the automaker in question might want more than axial wants to give. maybe jeep has it specified that axial not use other auto companies trademarks...

i work alot with promotions and sweepstakes where we give away cars, boats, motorcycles, and all sorts of gear. on the more big ticket items we have to provide the company with an outline of how we are intending of using thier trademark, and once weve got something created we have to run it by them for approval.

in other words... working with corporate trademark attorneys is a total nightmare.

[Arctic Fire]

I may have an answer

[Richterat83]

You can get a Comanche body already. I doubt jeep would want to spend time advertising a truck they didn't make nearly long enough

Sent from my SM-T310 using Tapatalk

[Meatwad]

Originally Posted by Arctic Fire

It's a good question, the motivation of this thread. I think ultimately we would like to put a fire under Axial's butt, to try to get them motivated to advance their product. I too am a loyal axial fan. If axial doesn't evolve, they may ultimately fail. Parts and upgrade vendors are a fickle bunch; try to buy MRC factory parts now, and it hasn't been gone that long. If a product leaves, so does the support. Don't be entirely apathetic about it, as it might end up effecting you more than you may think now. I am already looking at a Gelande for my next platform, as it is new and exciting, slowly, but surely, Axial will lose dollars from people like me, not because we don't like axial, but because axial doesn't excite us anymore.

The awesome following will only stay as long as there is new and exciting things going on. We too, are a fickle bunch.

Think of it this way, to make my truck look like the rendering up top, with no fabrication on my part (some of us live in apartments, and don't have access to a fabrication shop) I would be spending the price of a kit- $329.99, Let's stick with Delrin like axial would make, so Dinky Transfer case $101, Dinky GR7 Front mount $88, and a CMS RC4WD kit is $55. Shorten some wraith axles to give me SCX-10 size AR60's for $170, and the wraith interior for $40. That's $784 not including tax+shipping, just to get me where we want to be. I can almost buy two Gelandes, which I would do, and Axial would lose my business.

Not sure where you're getting the unpopular feelings from, one of the last endurance scale comps I attended had 170+ drivers and probably 95%+ Axial drivetrains/chassis/bodies. There were a couple sawbacks and tf2's

There's no requirement to build your idea of a perfect truck right off the bat, do it in stages while driving in between stages to see how your upgrades affect drivability. More fun that way anyway!

My point being, a truck like you're describing rtr will be a pretty penny and turn off buyers. I'm not completely disagreeing with you either, it'll be nice when Axial gives us the next iteration of whatever it may be in the scale dept

[SwampDawg]

Im thinkin theyll make an IFS or KOH rig .

[alpine4x4]

Originally Posted by Meatwad

Not sure where you're getting the unpopular feelings from, one of the last endurance scale comps I attended had 170+ drivers and probably 95%+ Axial drivetrains/chassis/bodies. There were a couple sawbacks and tf2's

There's no requirement to build your idea of a perfect truck right off the bat, do it in stages while driving in between stages to see how your upgrades affect drivability. More fun that way anyway!

My point being, a truck like you're describing rtr will be a pretty penny and turn off buyers. I'm not completely disagreeing with you either, it'll be nice when Axial gives us the next iteration of whatever it may be in the scale dept

It's expensive now because it's all aftermarket items. Mass produce it with a big brand name company like Axial and costs to produce such items will not be high at all. If axial goes in and makes 5,000 of these rigs, thats 5k cms units to make. You cant tell me any one manufacturer now has made even close to that many cms kits. It's all about volume. Axial has the selling capacity to take it to the next level and make it affordable. People said the same thing about making a crawler in the first place, look where its at now

[Austke]

I like Axial. I have a couple running and a few projects on the bench.
But I am really liking the Gelande and Sawback when it comes to new scale crawlers.
Axial took a step away from my ideal RC when they released the EXO.
As I prefer to crawl over bash/race.
Toyota and Nissan are way more popular over here in OZ. Jeeps are looked upon as softroaders here. Not serious offroad vehicles. None of my Axials have jeep bodies.
I hope axial don't do another IFS RC.

[ToyZuki]

Very good points and it wouldn't take much for axial to make this happen! All they need to do is hire me to design it for them! (I already have)

I really thought they missed the boat with the g6. Great idea to offer a pinned, doved, anything but a Jeep, out of the box class3! But the axles should have been 60's or make a splined scx axle that accepts xr shafts and outers!

As far as the motor forward goes there's many ways to do it, and we all think our idea is the best! Follow my sig if you want a cheap way to get the best performance!!

[slim_chance]

Actually the big body bronco is very popular on trails around here. Thing is their cheap to get. But I understand your point thats why I said I might be stretching it. I just would like to see something newish or uncommon for once.
Also the mold price is why I also suggested the Betty. If they haven't destroyed/thrown away the mold slap it back on the the machine and start pounding them out! But of course I don't know if molds wear out so that maybe the case.
I do also understand you mean molds for the drive train and stuff.
And if they start production of the Betty again maybe I can finally get the winch and grille decals!

[Arctic Fire]

Originally Posted by Richterat83

You can get a Comanche body already. I doubt jeep would want to spend time advertising a truck they didn't make nearly long enough

Sent from my SM-T310 using Tapatalk

Pro-line made both Jeeps before Axial came out with their Rubicon, It didn't even slow them down , they just started vacuum forming away!

My Comanche post was a little sarcastic, but maybe, who knows?

Originally Posted by SwampDawg

Im thinkin theyll make an IFS or KOH rig .

I think that the release of a RTR Falken G6 is immanent. Another "New" Product from axial. I've never seen them mold one off tires before, they always lead to something. If you look at the body on the Falken it's not hand painted; it's machine screened. It's a mass production waiting to happen. (but let's keep that in another thread, this is about moving FORWARD!)

Related to this discussion though, if they do release it, it will be undisputable proof how much Axial has lost it's way. An advertisement ridden, shameless product endorsing body goes against everything the G6 stands for. It'd be like taking your brand new 40ft RV with air conditioning to Burning man. Wrong in so many ways.

The fact that their already is a "ready to assemble G6 Kit" is just wrong too. But I think I'm starting to rant.

[Harley]

Originally Posted by Arctic Fire

An advertisement ridden, shameless product endorsing body goes against everything the G6 stands for. It'd be like taking your brand new 40ft RV with air conditioning to Burning man. Wrong in so many ways.

The fact that their already is a "ready to assemble G6 Kit" is just wrong too. But I think I'm starting to rant.

Wait what? Have you been to a G6? It's all about shameless plugs. Always has been. It actually falls right into the lines of the whole G6 mentality.

A Falken wrapped RTR would be great for the market, shelf appeal is what brings people in. Dollars are what moves this hobby forward and there are more new people to come in then there are people already here. Plus the overwhelming cry for a brand new truck is NOT the norm. While we would all love new stuff (which will come eventually, granted I highly doubt anything like what you're asking for as it isn't a mass market appeal), most of us are still fine with working with the extremely solid current platform.

Axial is doing what they have to do to make money. The Traxxas model is what works and makes money. Use what you have invested in to make more money.

[Arctic Fire]

..well now we KNOW it's coming (j/k)

Harley - I will have to tread very carefully as I know the experience level/knowledge base that I am replying to. Feel free to put me in my place.

Maybe my view of a G6 is all wrong, excerpt from the RECON website. "RECON G6 events are based around adventure, battling the environment and building camaraderie with fellow competitors." I thought, and Again I could be wrong, that the G6 stood for bringing together like minded hobbyist to showcase and test their hard work in building G6 rigs. It's about building relationships with fellow enthusiasts and getting together for good times. A chance to share unique rides, build ideas, and creations with your fellow die hard enthusiasts. I had read somewhere the philosophy was "a non comp comp", meaning it was more about the ride and adventure than winning and sponsors. Sponsorship flag waving rigs, seem to be outside of this philosophy.

If it's all about the ride and adventure, who needs to see a Giant Falken banner plastered all over a truck, (not to mention 5 or 10 all the exact same).

"The overwhelming cry for a new product not being the norm" is exactly why Axial should move forward (again, just MY humble opinion). A company shouldn't wait until a product is all used up (I'll mention blackberry once more) before trying to advance the product. They will be left in the dust as the new "norm" slowly becomes a better product from a different manufacturer. The axial name, no matter what they do after that paradigm shift, will never be as powerful as it once was. Become complacent when you are the big fish, and the little fish will pick you apart, slowly, maybe very slowly, but surely.

Besides, with Axial's current business model, if they give us something new, they will be good for another 7 years of skin changes.

[Harley]

Originally Posted by Arctic Fire

Maybe my view of a G6 is all wrong, excerpt from the RECON website. "RECON G6 events are based around adventure, battling the environment and building camaraderie with fellow competitors." I thought, and Again I could be wrong, that the G6 stood for bringing together like minded hobbyist to showcase and test their hard work in building G6 rigs. It's about building relationships with fellow enthusiasts and getting together for good times. A chance to share unique rides, build ideas, and creations with your fellow die hard enthusiasts. I had read somewhere the philosophy was "a non comp comp", meaning it was more about the ride and adventure than winning and sponsors. Sponsorship flag waving rigs, seem to be outside of this philosophy.

If it's all about the ride and adventure, who needs to see a Giant Falken banner plastered all over a truck, (not to mention 5 or 10 all the exact same).

I agree that it's all about getting together and going on a ride, but the sponsorship banner part is as far from the opposite of reality as possible. By all means, I am as big a sponsor flag waving whore as anyone so I'm not saying it's a bad thing. I'm just saying that waving a sponsor flag could basically be the mission statement of the G6. Sponsor are the only way that ship keeps sailing. Go look at any of the Facebook posts, you'll be hard pressed to find one that doesn't have one of the sponsor names linked in it. From there go to any of the other social media sites and follow the hash tags...


Mass market appeal is what will keep Axial going. Rigs that MOST people can go buy and have fun with. Scale is as big as it's ever been, but a rig that is less balanced and more strictly scale I see not having that mass appeal. Most people who own a SCX have never been on RCC. They are the backyard "basher" guys that go drive it on the wood pile. A balance of performance and scale is still important for that "make everyone happy" type design. We need Axials products to be mass market accepted so that they can make enough money to produce parts that we can morph into what we really want.

[SwampDawg]

in the case vs sponsorship:

we dont need sponsorship to have a new lexan body made, or axle, or, or, or ,or......
Licensing is required to have said lexan body, axle, or , or, or, or.....

correct???

as for Axial:
Why is it they are either stuck or bent on 2 platforms such as the Wraith and SCX10, other then it works??
Research & Development will keep moving forward regardless! I was about to buy the G6 only weeks ago before i came
to my senses! I already have 2 of these platforms, so IF i wanted the G6 all id have to do is buy the shell and cage for
one. Best 400.00 i ever saved!! And because i am soooo uber sick of the same thing over and over again...

For now....

Axial wont be getting another dime from me for a KIT or RTR rig, until i see some new product!
Hence why i opted for something new and different that lead me to the Vattera SlickRock, and i am not comparing the two
to start a sh!tstorm either.