I'm Back :)

[Rich Trujillo]

Hi all,
Well after a 1 1/2 break (ok i was laid off lol) i"m back with Horizon. To be honest during that time I hadn't followed this forum.
I will be checking in here (when time allows) but since it's been a while, i'd be interested in seeing what you guys have been doing to the Ascender, what platform changes or mods you would suggest etc.

Keep in mind as a product developer, things take time to produce and not all things can be produced (cost etc) but I'm always open to feedback.

While i'm at it, I've been posting random builds, runs ect on my Instagram account: oldrc_rich

Thanks,
Rich
Sr. Product Developer
Horizon Hobby
Vaterra R/C
IG: oldrc_Rich

[JatoTheRipper]

Welcome back! I know the Ascender family is glad to have you back.

When is the Ascender 2.0 coming?

[svt923]

Great to have you back in the Ascender world Rich.

The one and only wish I have for the Ascender platform is optional underdrive gears. Just 1 more tooth on the ring gear and one less on the pinion would be a fine amount of underdrive.

[Shinchu]

Originally Posted by JatoTheRipper

Welcome back! I know the Ascender family is glad to have you back.

When is the Ascender 2.0 coming?

yeah, what he said!
thanks for your awesome contributions from before (that thread is still referenced DAILY) and we look forward to more now that you are back!

and yes, Ascender 2.0! im sure you know about the slight geometry tweaks we usually do, so that would be great to see right out of the box.
MORE BODY SELECTION! is always good!
really the ascender is so versatile it needs very little work to be even BETTER than "the other guys" and still has the best steering angle in the biz. (and only gets better thanks to CODYBOY!)

whatever you end up doing, we can help for sure! I feel the Ascender Family here is stronger than ever with myself and a couple other new guys here keeping it fresh and interesting, learning from folks like you and the other veterans (you know who you are!) you can count on us to give you honest insight when you need it.

i didn't know you before, but im glad you are back!

Chris

oh and i am kinda starting a new thing around here...
if a post is deemed worthy (and i think this one is), i give it the battle cry:


ASCENDERS, ASSEMBLE!!!

[OldNTired]

Welcome back Rich! Glad to have your knowledge back on the forum.

[Ascender'nMN84]

Glad to see you're back! Under and overdrive gearing for the axles would be a welcome addition by many members of this forum like SVT923 mentioned.

Or Ascender 2.0...

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[Itali83]

Glad that you're back. These trucks are awesome and I love the two that I have. I think a forward motor kit would blow the others out of the water. Seems like many want the scale look and feel from a truck. I custom built a forward motor ascender and LOVE it. I'd make the next ascender with a forward motor. Have the skid the same as 1.0 ascender for the die hards that will hate on it snthey can put the motor in the middle.

I run with axial and trx guys in my group and my ascender always impresses them with it's ability.

Ben

[Natedog]

Originally Posted by JatoTheRipper

Welcome back! I know the Ascender family is glad to have you back.

When is the Ascender 2.0 coming?

X2

Originally Posted by svt923

....optional underdrive gears. Just 1 more tooth on the ring gear and one less on the pinion would be a fine amount of underdrive.

X2

Originally Posted by Shinchu

...Ascender 2.0! im sure you know about the slight geometry tweaks we usually do, so that would be great to see right out of the box.
MORE BODY SELECTION! is always good!
really the ascender is so versatile it needs very little work to be even BETTER than "the other guys" and still has the best steering angle in the biz. (and only gets better thanks to CODYBOY!)

whatever you end up doing, we can help for sure! I feel the Ascender Family here is stronger than ever with myself and a couple other new guys here keeping it fresh and interesting, learning from folks like you and the other veterans (you know who you are!) you can count on us to give you honest insight when you need it.

oh and i am kinda starting a new thing around here...
if a post is deemed worthy (and i think this one is), i give it the battle cry:


ASCENDERS, ASSEMBLE!!!

X2 and love that battle cry!

Originally Posted by Itali83

...I think a forward motor kit would blow the others out of the water. Seems like many want the scale look and feel from a truck. I custom built a forward motor ascender and LOVE it. I'd make the next ascender with a forward motor. Have the skid the same as 1.0 ascender for the die hards that will hate on it so they can put the motor in the middle.

X2, welcome back Rich, very glad to see you back with us Ascenders!

As said, optional UD gears for the rear, improved rear link geometry to combat torque twist, improved front link geometry (raised panhard axle mount for starters to increase side-hill ability, more bodies (with useable LED light buckets, K10 has none), 550 21T motor included instead of 540 35T motor.

That's all I can think of at the moment, thanks for asking and considering our input!

Edit: Another want, upper axle link mounts that have a third bolt near the top to attach it to the axle housing so that they don't flex and allow the axle to roll under on hard acceleration. Yeti-Stealth's thread starting about post # 57.
Yeti.Stealths Ascenders

Some smaller, more comp oriented bumpers that have internal ribbing laid out in such a way as to me 'trimmable' to different width/height profiles for different bodies. Stock Blazer bumpers are already this way in regards to height, but width-wise too would be great.
See Rockhugger Bumper Mods, starting with post # 737
Natedog's Vaterra ASCENDER

Codyboy style brass axle inserts to increase non-rotating mass down low, starting at post # 18.
Codyboy Design: 1972 Chevrolet K10 Pickup Ascender

Replace multi-piece steering tie-rod with single link, move draglink to top of steering knuckle for even less bumpsteer (stock is virtually none) and stronger less flexible steering linkage. Post # 750 and 933.
Natedog's Vaterra ASCENDER
Natedog's Vaterra ASCENDER

BTW, thanks for beefier CVDs too!

[durok]

As someone who read up on practically every thread in here, I am aware of your commitment to the Ascender and its users (I mean drivers!).

Because of all the great things I've read, I just got my K10 Chevy version less than a week ago - my 1st crawler, and 1st RC in many years...

Drove it stock on Sunday for 2 hours, had an incredible time.. was repeatedly attacking a 10' limestone bluff with varying angles of approach and surface looseness.

First successful attempt to the top on a steep and mostly solid section was SO rewarding!

This is what it's about - a relatively short learning curve on a stock vehicle, the sound of each lug of the TSL tires clawing at the rock, very minimal electronic noise to ruin the effect, varying the throttle and slightly bouncing the rig up and over!!!

It's a great choice, as is. Others here have been modding and designing parts that improve it's capabilities even more.

Several members here are very generous with their time and knowledge - Replying to seemingly every thread with advice on tuning and mods - I think it's the most supportive group on RCCrawler...

Great to have you back, high hopes for even more coolness to come!

[CODYBOY]

Hey Rich, welcome back!!! I was up at Kelly Lunsford the other day and he said he had hired Scott, so I was wondering if you would step back into the picture. Nice to have you back home.
Ernie

[Yeti.stealth]

Yes, we are glad to have you back Rich!

Ascenders are awesome, you guys did a great job with them. If I could ask for anything more it would be a stronger rear upper link mount. Also I love the look and size of the vaterra swamper tyres, like many do, but the rubber is a little hard, any chance they could be supplied in a softer compound?

Only other gripe is having to disassemble entire axle to replace worn out driveshaft pins in the diff input CVD. I wish for a simpler maintenance friendly solution.

An Ascender 2.0 would be awesome!

Edit. Oh yeah! Factory 2 speed, throttle expo on RTR radios, a 2 speed conversion kit sold as a complete package, single shock springs, taller Spring cups cause sometimes the plastic sleeve between the 2 shock springs gets hung up, the spring pops out of the cup and I lose the cup......

[Jeepiac]

Welcome back! Now down to business. I've been planning the Ascender 2.0 Epic. Yes, Epic lol. Here's how it goes. Keep the adjustable chassis, heavy duty adjustable links, low profile forward transmission with transfer case, under and over drive gears offered as part of the kit, steering based on Ernie's design, high grade shocks in the kit and zero torque twist. Cut some of the cost by deleting the tires/wheels from the kit. Just my opinion, but stock tires/wheels are more of a waste than anything. Usually the first thing to go, if they ever get installed in the first place. Design and release a kit aimed at the builder/competitor. A kit so epic, Axial will be afraid to even think about copying it

How's it feel to return home and immediately have people jump on your back and start kicking?

P.S. I love the current Ascender, and I'm still convinced the delay in aftermarket support is a conspiracy put into place by a large company that saw the threat the Ascender posed towards their SCX10

[2mtech]

Welcome back Rich! Glad you're back in the game. The Ascender was my first build (good choice!) and fueled the obsession.

Originally Posted by Yeti.stealth

Only other gripe is having to disassemble entire axle to replace worn out driveshaft pins in the diff input CVD. I wish for a simpler maintenance friendly solution.

X2 with a bullet

Up until driveshaft pin pain, my only gripe was the horrid torque twist inherent to the rig. After multiple suspension tweaks and shock experimentation I finally wound up installing stock Gmade shocks with the stiffest springs to keep the girl's truck from wrapping around itself.

So just fix those little items. Kthx.

[Rich Trujillo]

Thanks guys for the welcome back.

Ok again, no promises, no time frame no guarantees but as always we (Horizon Hobby) are always looking to improve our product and we all know at some point a new version has to come out.
All this being said, I have some questions, but before i ask, please keep this in mind.

As a product developer, it's my responsibility to make sure i help create a product with mass appeal. There is a fine balance between giving the "hard core" user what they way while keeping it simple for the majority of buyers who never do anything but charge a battery and run it. Yes they are the majority. I have to keep costs in mind as well. A lot of time people think we sell millions of cars and it costs $50 to make a truck, both of these are far from the truth. Basically I want to do as much as possible but there are some things that are just not practical for production...so if your idea doesn't get used, please take it easy on me
Also note, as much as i love scaling and crawlers, I'm usually working on a lot of projects in different category's which pulls me in many different directions. Unfortunately it doesn't allow me to just focus on this category so again, if there is something you think i should know and I don't, please give me a little break lol.


1. Torque Twist: I'm aware of this issue and dealing with it myself. I suspect is has to partially do with our gearing in the axle as well as the ratio we chose to use but i'm curious what if any affect raising the upper link has made. I personally have not tested it but browsing around forums and the web this seemed to be the hot thing to do. Is this still the case, any body else have things they've tried.

2. 2 Speed: How important is this feature? From what I have seen, it seems more users are avoiding the 2 speed option and just using 3S power. Seems like consumers would rather use the 3rd channel for a winch or light set. I realize that we don't offer a conversion kit but I believe Axial does and I have not seen many of those being used (maybe i'm not looking hard enough?).

3. Over/under drive: Who is this option aimed at? Competitive scalers, average users? How much benefits or advantages have you guys seen with other rigs that have this?

4. Upper Link mount: I'm going to look into a stiffer material to see if we can improve this, I've seen some aluminum offerings, how well do these work and what improvements have you seen?

5. Driveshafts: The reason we went with our design was to push the yoke as close to the housing as possible to provide more clearance. I personally have not broken any of the pins but it sounds like some of you have. How big of an issue is this?

Good stuff guys, thanks for the comments and suggestions.

Rich

[svt923]

Originally Posted by Rich Trujillo

3. Over/under drive: Who is this option aimed at? Competitive scalers, average users? How much benefits or advantages have you guys seen with other rigs that have this?

I would say different gear sets would be aimed at the intermidiate user up through the comp guys. The split ratio help decrease turning radius and a higher ratio underdrive gear set in the rear would help reduce torque twist. I think those benefits would appeal to everyone.

I'm not sure if you are aware Rich, but the Ascender axles have spawned aftermarket scale axles (Bowhouse and GCM) based on the Ascender internals. It may not be under an Ascender but those gears are under many different scale vehicles at this point.

[Itali83]

My experience on the torque twist is that it is caused by the high gear ratio in the rear ends. This is needed to get the pimpkin as small as it is. So the guys that bitch about torque twist are probably praising the great axle clearance. The torque twist is an issue though even for the occasional crawler. When I first got mine, I ran with axial guys and was immediately frustrated with problems crawling steep inclines because of the torque twist.

I personally saw no difference in raising the upper links to help with torque twist. I did it to help improve the rear driveline angle at the rear driveshaft joint. I love my sway bar but most people hate on it until my truck passes theirs on the same line. I don't really have a solution for you on this but either Make some suspension tuning design to help with torque twist or find a way to run lower gear ratio rear ends to lessen torque twist.

2 speed. I love my 2 speed. I still run stock motor and esc in my 1.9 ascender. The stock electronics don't take 3s very well. By that I mean that even with my dx4c radio, the tip in throttle is too jumpy on 3s. Can't get expo to take it out. It's just the esc. I know a better esc will fix this but I'm keeping the stock electronics until they quit. Most guys like th idea of 2 speed but don't like the extra wiring, weight, setting up the shift servo to warrant it. So I honestly think that's a lost cause for the masses. I would like to see a kit for guys like me who want to add it to the existing transmission. I've built 2 two speeeds from parts and it's a pain! Even with the twin hammers directions to mark the different parts off on.

That's all I've got to say about that for now. I'm a die hard ascender man so I obviously think you've done great work so far. Keep it up.
Ben

[JatoTheRipper]

Originally Posted by Rich Trujillo

Thanks guys for the welcome back.

Ok again, no promises, no time frame no guarantees but as always we (Horizon Hobby) are always looking to improve our product and we all know at some point a new version has to come out.
All this being said, I have some questions, but before i ask, please keep this in mind.

As a product developer, it's my responsibility to make sure i help create a product with mass appeal. There is a fine balance between giving the "hard core" user what they way while keeping it simple for the majority of buyers who never do anything but charge a battery and run it. Yes they are the majority. I have to keep costs in mind as well. A lot of time people think we sell millions of cars and it costs $50 to make a truck, both of these are far from the truth. Basically I want to do as much as possible but there are some things that are just not practical for production...so if your idea doesn't get used, please take it easy on me
Also note, as much as i love scaling and crawlers, I'm usually working on a lot of projects in different category's which pulls me in many different directions. Unfortunately it doesn't allow me to just focus on this category so again, if there is something you think i should know and I don't, please give me a little break lol.


1. Torque Twist: I'm aware of this issue and dealing with it myself. I suspect is has to partially do with our gearing in the axle as well as the ratio we chose to use but i'm curious what if any affect raising the upper link has made. I personally have not tested it but browsing around forums and the web this seemed to be the hot thing to do. Is this still the case, any body else have things they've tried.

2. 2 Speed: How important is this feature? From what I have seen, it seems more users are avoiding the 2 speed option and just using 3S power. Seems like consumers would rather use the 3rd channel for a winch or light set. I realize that we don't offer a conversion kit but I believe Axial does and I have not seen many of those being used (maybe i'm not looking hard enough?).

3. Over/under drive: Who is this option aimed at? Competitive scalers, average users? How much benefits or advantages have you guys seen with other rigs that have this?

4. Upper Link mount: I'm going to look into a stiffer material to see if we can improve this, I've seen some aluminum offerings, how well do these work and what improvements have you seen?

5. Driveshafts: The reason we went with our design was to push the yoke as close to the housing as possible to provide more clearance. I personally have not broken any of the pins but it sounds like some of you have. How big of an issue is this?

Good stuff guys, thanks for the comments and suggestions.

Rich

1. Can't comment as I have not messed with link height.

2. The stock gearing is fine as far as speed goes. We use this as a trail rig not a basher. I don't mess with the 2-speed nor do many people seem to.

3. Anybody that drives this as a trailer or crawler will benefit from OD and UD gears. They are a must-have option IMHO.

4. The stock, aluminum links are junk. They're way too soft for crawling. Most aluminum links do not bend as easy as the Ascender links. You must be using a softer alloy because I typically do not bend aluminum links.

5. I think it's a non issue. I haven't broken any. There are plenty of aftermarket parts available for those that want to switch.

[Shinchu]

i cant believe im going to say this but... maybe use a tactic similar to Everest 7 with the "sport" and "pro"? putting the bells and whistles on the pro model, and basic RTR type features on the sport.
-or-
RTR having basic configs with a couple new features to keep it fresh, and the kit would have the bells and whistles, even if it means cost is the same as RTR? (read: higher)
OR
having sport RTR, pro RTR, sport kit, pro kit? 4 offerings is a lot going on, but you would get the exact truck to the exact market.

2 speed i dont think is a requirement, but it would put it up there with the TRX4 as a feature. maybe in the RTR (pro) for the masses? again that adds cost on your end for another servo, and a 3 ch radio to run it.

upper link mount. i have heard of the links ripping themselves out of the link mount on the axle. other than aluminum mount, i dont know what the solution could be, other than going all the way through and putting a nut on the end? fugly, but it could work?

slightly off topic... if you have any involvement in the road car V100 line... what is the possibility of a RWD version for drifting? pretty niche and the drifting boom has died down a little. but there are still people out there and having a company right here in cali... man the support would be HUGE.

[Rich Trujillo]

Originally Posted by Shinchu

slightly off topic... if you have any involvement in the road car V100 line... what is the possibility of a RWD version for drifting? pretty niche and the drifting boom has died down a little. but there are still people out there and having a company right here in cali... man the support would be HUGE.

I'm responsible for the entire V100 series and unfortunately i can tell you there is almost no chance for a RWD let alone another drift car. It's a bummer, I wouldn't mind but the touring car market is very soft and our car is not setup to be a good drift platform with the rear tow in and steering geometry. The costs to improve this would not add up in sales. Too tough a sell for my bosses.

Sorry.

[Shinchu]

no worries. just figured i would ask. thanks for answering! the bodies in that line are still getting all kinds of praise, though (i think the 69 Camaro is INCREDIBLE). maybe some new bodies?

oh! yeah how about a new body or two for the ascender!? people are getting really worn out on jeeps, yotas, blazers... you get the idea. you think something new would be feasible?

i know getting licensed stuff is not easy/cheap. just another idea.