Ideas for next season Scale Series

[bmx_ican92]

okay i have a question about "scale"

how can a 1:10th scale rig with 2.2 rok lox (5.35") be considered scale?

5.35 x 10= 53.5" inch tires...

Dont see too many rigs with those...

Just wondering...

[TURTLE]

Originally Posted by bmx_ican92

okay i have a question about "scale"

how can a 1:10th scale rig with 2.2 rok lox (5.35") be considered scale?

5.35 x 10= 53.5" inch tires...

Dont see too many rigs with those...

Just wondering...

They do exist though. Apparently there are a few companies making tires in the size now...

Just because there are not a lot of 1:1 rigs out on the trails that large doesn't mean there could not be. I would build one that big if I had 50,000 extra dollars sitting around, not sure what I would use it for...
Also consider that several scale bodies on the market are larger than 1/10th scale, maybe not by a lot, but still...

[bmx_ican92]

is that like a 60" haha

Thank you for clarifying that for me! Always wondered about that...

[Rogue]

Originally Posted by bmx_ican92

okay i have a question about "scale"

how can a 1:10th scale rig with 2.2 rok lox (5.35") be considered scale?

5.35 x 10= 53.5" inch tires...

Dont see too many rigs with those...

Just wondering...

There has to be some give on the term and definition of scale appling to r/c. I don't see to many real 1:1 rigs with electric motors either.
There are only so many parts for us to chose from. That is also why there is the 2.2 class and the 1.9 class, instead of the 1/10 or 1/8 or 1/what ever class.

[bmx_ican92]

yeah i understand, i was just wondering. Sorry

[cato]

Please leave the "winching" as it is...again this is the reason I enjoy this so much....Just my humble-opinion

[RPMJ]

Originally Posted by Rogue

It's also hard to reward someone for helping out, and being fair to everyone else. One could just sit there all day with the rig ready and help out lets say ten rigs, if we were to give them a -5 for each help that's a -50 how is that fair to the rest of the field. I feel if someone wants to help great, if not then no big deal, but someone is allways ready to lend a helping hand to those that need it.

Maybe make a max number of times you can help (winch someone out) per event.... Probably the best answer is not to penalize for winch use but to have shorter times on gated events. That way if you choose to use your winch you know your chances of timing out increase.
AGAIN MORE ROCK RACING........

[Rogue]

Originally Posted by cato

Please leave the "winching" as it is...again this is the reason I enjoy this so much....Just my humble-opinion

See, I agree with you on this, there is/was nothing wronge with winching in my opinion. It may make take more time, but we can change the time limits for courses. Just need a max point total for the gated courses, if we want to start having people dnf.

Originally Posted by RPMJ

Maybe make a max number of times you can help (winch someone out) per event.... Probably the best answer is not to penalize for winch use but to have shorter times on gated events. That way if you choose to use your winch you know your chances of timing out increase.
AGAIN MORE ROCK RACING........

I think we need to have shorter courses, and give less time to complete. We also need to come up with a max point for gated courses. I need some were to start from to deduct progress. 40 points it too low. do we go with 80 or 60 or 100? What is the max points you guys feel is fair?

I hear ya on the rock racing!!! What a blast that was the couple times we did it. If we can keep interest and get enough guys to do it we can keep doing it. We may have to set up a separate time to do these away from the scale series as the last few events we just did not have time to run them. Although I think once summer gets closer and we have more daylight that may not be an issue.

[jason]

Originally Posted by monkeyracer

Ty and I agreed to edit our posts, so to be nice to Rogue, and keep this thread clean from that BS, can the above posts be edited or deleted by the people who posted them? And thanks to those that have edited or deleted their posts.

I am not going to fawk up Rogues thread, but I find it funny how many pm's you sent me lastnight after I was sleeping trying to clean this mess up.

YOU are the one that started the mess, there would have been nothing to clean up if YOU hadn't started it.

Someone wise once told me, "Don't start not shit, there won't be no shit"

[70duncan]

Hey Tod, I hope you don't mind if I add to this. If so, just let me know and I will remove it .

Like most people, we all like using our winches. For some reason, it is just fun/cool to run out your line and winch up something. But, you also don't want to completly rely on it. So, a shorter time limit on corses and no penalty for using the winch would be good. But, if you don't have a winch and can't get up something on your own, there should be a penalty for that.

As for helping the day go along a little faster, hopfully a couple people will step up and help judge on a second course, but some times this dosn't happen because everyone is just having a good time visiting will their buddys. Which is cool also. So the only other option is shorter courses, but the longer ones are more fun. I am olny saying this because on my first time putting on an event, we only had 6 guys show up and we made the courses very long. The only problem is that it took us over 3 hours for the 6 of us to finish . We were just having to much fun. Any ways, I am expecting more to show up this next time, so I am planning shorter courses so we can finish in a timely manner and when all is done. We are going to have VERY LOOOOONG trail run, like follow the leader. We did this last time, and everyone said they more fun just doing that. So I will try to keep the new tradition alive . After all, the main reason people show up to the comp, is realy only drive our cool little trucks and visit with our friends . The comp is just an excuse to get together.

I also don't like having the comp tires on scalers. Rovers expecially. Not wanting to offend anyone, but they just arn't scale. So I think that the tires have to look scale. Sounds like you already have a list of "Banned" tires. So, your idea of a penalty for banned tires sounds good to me. That way you don't exclued anyone from running.

Your series has been very fun, at least when we came up for one. Every one is always very thankfull for what you have done this last year, and the us guys on the western slope are also . With that being said, keep it simple and FUN.




Side note: how come the guys from the Springs couldn't drive to Denver, some of us from little ol GJ made it over . j/k Wanted to give you a hard time.

[THnCS]

Originally Posted by 70duncan

Side note: how come the guys from the Springs couldn't drive to Denver, some of us from little ol GJ made it over . j/k Wanted to give you a hard time.

Donate me a scaler and I will make the drive Hell I have even drove up just to watch before Unfortunately no scaler anymore, but got the itch and will probably build another one here soon.

Todd and Jeff, I have always liked our rules that we have here in CO. They are leanient enough not to discourage someone that just wants to crawl, but still has some hair on them for those that are more serious. This is a scale series and no one is going to be a "National Scale Champ" and lead to sponsors and glory.

Leave the rules to MSD and Pirate. If we have some people here that want to travel to MT for scale nats, then they need to build them to their rules anyway. They can still compete here and get the points deducted from this series like anyone else.

Didn't get to show up much this year, but sounds like the turnouts are good. I would agree that shorter courses are in order and crack down on the time limit to make it move faster. With a time limit, you will be able to judge how long your day will be.

Winching, that is the coolest part of scale. No point deduction if you are winching yourself, the time limit will dictate that. Standard 5 point penalty if someone has to winch you out of something.

Tire-- I agree that the comp tires are not that scale, but you can't ban them. Rovers are $26 a set, can't beat that if you are on a budget. Penalize them with a 5 pt penalty for every course or something like that.

I know when/if I get something together, it is going to be a basic xtrail, one color body, winch and some old losi claws. This is baller on a budget

If this type of rig can't run in the series, then let me know and I won't waste the time. Who cares if I have the scalest rig out there, I just want to crawl. I use the comp series to be competitive(somewhat), scaler series is to hang out with friends, bbq and have fun.

Miss hangin out with you guys, even got the sasquatch considering building a basic rig too

[TwistedXT]

i would actually like to see a Trail run style comp - maybe a "last one standing" type comp where as if you cannot make the line previously provided by the leader or guy in front of you - you drop off in reverse order.. ie - 10 guys are running, the first guy to not make a "line" gets 10th and the next guy who cannot make it gets 9th and so on till there is "last rig standing" - they get first. Maybe out of randomness the rigs could be placed in order, if the leader cannot make the line they were going for they go to the back of the pack, but anyone else who cannot make the line is out and gets scored accordingly...

although - i guess if you have a bunch of guys drop at the same obsticle they could all get the same - ie - 5th place for that trail run...

^^^^^ thoughts?



Im also game for some driving - id be cool with a get together in Pueblo, Co Springs, Deckers, Mnt Evans, Pikes Peak, GeorgeTown, Empire, Golden, Boulder, Fort collins, and anywhere in between. I think it would be really cool to do a pikes peak run and then a mount evens run... cause come on, how many other crawling groups can have comps at 14,000 feet?!?! After all, this is Crawlerado - not Denver crawling club. I would love to see what other cities have to offer! hell, id almost offer up if you live in BFE, post up you comp spot (thats cool for us to comp there with the appropriate permission) and let the masses vote to see where we end up going.


another side note - the trail run idea could be preformed where "we arnt supposed to be competing" and it would just look like a bunch of guys driving thier trucks.

[TwistedXT]

Originally Posted by THnCS

Donate me a scaler and I will make the drive Hell I have even drove up just to watch before Unfortunately no scaler anymore, but got the itch and will probably build another one here soon.

Todd and Jeff, I have always liked our rules that we have here in CO. They are leanient enough not to discourage someone that just wants to crawl, but still has some hair on them for those that are more serious. This is a scale series and no one is going to be a "National Scale Champ" and lead to sponsors and glory.

Leave the rules to MSD and Pirate. If we have some people here that want to travel to MT for scale nats, then they need to build them to their rules anyway. They can still compete here and get the points deducted from this series like anyone else.

Didn't get to show up much this year, but sounds like the turnouts are good. I would agree that shorter courses are in order and crack down on the time limit to make it move faster. With a time limit, you will be able to judge how long your day will be.

Winching, that is the coolest part of scale. No point deduction if you are winching yourself, the time limit will dictate that. Standard 5 point penalty if someone has to winch you out of something.

Tire-- I agree that the comp tires are not that scale, but you can't ban them. Rovers are $26 a set, can't beat that if you are on a budget. Penalize them with a 5 pt penalty for every course or something like that.

I know when/if I get something together, it is going to be a basic xtrail, one color body, winch and some old losi claws. This is baller on a budget

If this type of rig can't run in the series, then let me know and I won't waste the time. Who cares if I have the scalest rig out there, I just want to crawl. I use the comp series to be competitive(somewhat), scaler series is to hang out with friends, bbq and have fun.

Miss hangin out with you guys, even got the sasquatch considering building a basic rig too

both you 2 get a scx10tr and get out here! (im just getting back into it myself)

[Rogue]

James no problem about voicing your opinions!
We will need to do something about time and course length. I think that there is an easy solution to a problem that I can see coming.
The biggest problem I see coming is a point out total. I know that 40 is too low, but there has to be a limit, there needs to be a place to subtract progress from when there is a DNF. It came up a couple times this season and I can see it becoming an issue in the future.

Tim I hope you and Satch do decide to get back into scalers. It was always fun with you guys there. I would suggest though ditch the Xtrail idea and get a SCX-10!
I don't want to over burden the scale series with rules. I think most of the rules that we have in place are good, but we need to define what scale deductions are worth. I like the hanging out, bar-b-que style that we have and don't want to lose that feeling.
I don't want to ban anyone from coming out to compete, but if they don't want to get scale tires, then there should be a point penalty for not running them. There also needs to be a "helper" penalty, so if someone can't/won't run a winch they get a point penalty when they get help through a gate or obstical.

Mike I really don't have much issue traveling to events either, but I want them to be good "scale" spots if I'm going to have people drive to them.
The trail ride style comp sounds fun, but how would you score that? Who would judge?

I was talking with Jeff, and he is flat apposed about penalizing for using the winch, but all for removing the 1 free reverse. He also would like to do a Buddy course like Rodney asked about. I would like to come up with some ideas for this and Mikes trail ride style courst, and maybe make a different series for these two events. For the buddy course we could have a 3 or more event series. One event would be with the buddy of your choice, one would be with a random drawing, then one would be assigned by points. Say there are 10 drivers, then 1st and 10th place, 2nd and 9th and so on.

Trails runs sould become easier as daylight become more abundant. Then last few events we were just running out of time. I can see these becoming more of an every event occurance with the longer, warmer days.

[RPMJ]

Originally Posted by THnCS

Donate me a scaler and I will make the drive Hell I have even drove up just to watch before Unfortunately no scaler anymore, but got the itch and will probably build another one here soon.

Todd and Jeff, I have always liked our rules that we have here in CO. They are leanient enough not to discourage someone that just wants to crawl, but still has some hair on them for those that are more serious. This is a scale series and no one is going to be a "National Scale Champ" and lead to sponsors and glory.

Leave the rules to MSD and Pirate. If we have some people here that want to travel to MT for scale nats, then they need to build them to their rules anyway. They can still compete here and get the points deducted from this series like anyone else.

Didn't get to show up much this year, but sounds like the turnouts are good. I would agree that shorter courses are in order and crack down on the time limit to make it move faster. With a time limit, you will be able to judge how long your day will be.

Winching, that is the coolest part of scale. No point deduction if you are winching yourself, the time limit will dictate that. Standard 5 point penalty if someone has to winch you out of something.

Tire-- I agree that the comp tires are not that scale, but you can't ban them. Rovers are $26 a set, can't beat that if you are on a budget. Penalize them with a 5 pt penalty for every course or something like that.

I know when/if I get something together, it is going to be a basic xtrail, one color body, winch and some old losi claws. This is baller on a budget

If this type of rig can't run in the series, then let me know and I won't waste the time. Who cares if I have the scalest rig out there, I just want to crawl. I use the comp series to be competitive(somewhat), scaler series is to hang out with friends, bbq and have fun.

Miss hangin out with you guys, even got the sasquatch considering building a basic rig too

I still have your old Chevy......... we need to talk

[timmy85]

[QUOTE=TwistedXT;2225771]i would actually like to see a Trail run style comp - maybe a "last one standing" type comp where as if you cannot make the line previously provided by the leader or guy in front of you - you drop off in reverse order.. ie - 10 guys are running, the first guy to not make a "line" gets 10th and the next guy who cannot make it gets 9th and so on till there is "last rig standing" - they get first. Maybe out of randomness the rigs could be placed in order, if the leader cannot make the line they were going for they go to the back of the pack, but anyone else who cannot make the line is out and gets scored accordingly...

although - i guess if you have a bunch of guys drop at the same obsticle they could all get the same - ie - 5th place for that trail run...

^^^^^ thoughts?


i am new to the scale comps and cant wait for the next series
i like the idea of the trail runs maybe somthing like counting the amount of times you had to winch? or if we had a bypasses counting them aganist you also?

on the comp tires, i think we put all this time into a rig to make it look as real as possible so why not put nice scale tires on it?

i like the idea of a time limit also. is there a way of judgeing how far someone gets in a course if they dont finsh? say you made it 3/4 the way and i go 1/2 way before time ran out. so you would get a better score?

[Rogue]

Originally Posted by timmy85

i am new to the scale comps and cant wait for the next series
i like the idea of the trail runs maybe somthing like counting the amount of times you had to winch? or if we had a bypasses counting them aganist you also?

on the comp tires, i think we put all this time into a rig to make it look as real as possible so why not put nice scale tires on it?

i like the idea of a time limit also. is there a way of judgeing how far someone gets in a course if they dont finsh? say you made it 3/4 the way and i go 1/2 way before time ran out. so you would get a better score?

I agree with you on the tires!

Yes there is a way of measuring how far someone gets on a course. What I need is a way to subtract the progress from a set point total. It's like golf lowest score wins. Scale points, driving cleanly, you get a better score. Hit gates, reverse you get penalized points, but if you DNF we haven't set a point total to deduct progress from. We need to come up with a point total (worst score possible) the everyone (most) are happy with.

[TURTLE]

Originally Posted by Rogue

I agree with you on the tires!

Yes there is a way of measuring how far someone gets on a course. What I need is a way to subtract the progress from a set point total. It's like golf lowest score wins. Scale points, driving cleanly, you get a better score. Hit gates, reverse you get penalized points, but if you DNF we haven't set a point total to deduct progress from. We need to come up with a point total (worst score possible) the everyone (most) are happy with.

What if you just use the USRCCA rules and modify them to to be a little more scale oriented? I can't imagine it would take a lot of modification. Or better yet use W.E. Rock rules, with a few exceptions of repositions and such...

[Rogue]

Originally Posted by TURTLE

What if you just use the USRCCA rules and modify them to to be a little more scale oriented? I can't imagine it would take a lot of modification. Or better yet use W.E. Rock rules, with a few exceptions of repositions and such...

I think the rules that we have in place now are pretty good. There are just a few things that need to change.
There needs to be a +5 points for being winched/helped by someone else.
There needs to no free reverse.

I think what we need to agree apon as a group is, what is the point out total.

There are some scale point deductions values that need to change and or be added. I do not feel that going out and buying a Honcho, should receive the same amount of points that someone else gets for building a truggy and using steel to make it.
Making it your self should be rewarded over going out and buying it off the shelf.

[monkeyracer]

Originally Posted by Rogue

I think the rules that we have in place now are pretty good. There are just a few things that need to change.
There needs to be a +5 points for being winched/helped by someone else.
There needs to no free reverse.

I think what we need to agree apon as a group is, what is the point out total.

There are some scale point deductions values that need to change and or be added. I do not feel that going out and buying a Honcho, should receive the same amount of points that someone else gets for building a truggy and using steel to make it.
Making it your self should be rewarded over going out and buying it off the shelf.

I think 50 or 60 is a good point out limit. That allows you to hit a gate or two, get help being winched a couple times, and burn through some reverses before you're pointed out.

If we are running short courses though, we should have at least 6 gates, so that way you can't just straddle every gate and still finish.

I think there should be a points penalty for comp tires, but what if we took it from the max scale points deduction? So someone with a 30 point truck otherwise and comp tires is maxed at 25 or 20 points. This way you don't have someone overcompensating for comp tires with barbie doll accessories.

How will we determine what exactly are comp tires and what have a scale tread? We all know the obvious ones; rovers, leopards, claws... but what about something like Losi Rock Carvers or Imex Rubicons? And what about using a narrowed 2.2 scale tire with a 1.9 bead glued in?

On the current rules I was wondering about this though:
Dead Gates - according to the rules posted here it says after a gate is clear it is dead. Have we been keeping that rule? Why don't we do it like the Comp Rig rules, and keep gates live unless they are touched? Just an idea though.