Sensored Outrunner motors- Revolver S

[Nabil]

The one I got coming is going in one of the worm drive trucks too. It's gonna replace that hh 17.5 sensored motor I ran at nats 2010

[simon170]

Hmmm I'm torn, a normal brushless is tried and tested, but a huge outrunner is very tempting for the massive torque and doing something different is always cool.... Decisions decisions....

[EeePee]

My Losi alarm went off.

That's all good news there John.

Don's (BDW) interest has me interested because I'm imagining an even lighter SSS Axial I have. Oh wait, the ESC I'd need to use is huge... dang. I guess there's the Tekin RS, yeah?

[billet works]

These new motors are gonna make for some serious fun. I've got an ultra light weight all new AX SSS platform that'll use one and also a brand new LCC platform that will be a great fit for these. A full size Revolver S will also be utilized on a wraith axled project im wrapping up. I'll be using an rs for now but fully expect mr Holmes to release a sensored crawler esc in the future...no pressure john

Man I've got some motors to order!

Hey John, I'll help ya out with the proto on your other project we discussed as well. I need to get one 3 pounder on the way also so I can develop and build the gearbox/axle system for two of my other projects.

This thread needs more pics and vids man!

[Nova's Ark]

When can your testers buy these JRH? I'm ready to test. You know how much I love out runners and this is the next evolution in crawling. Brushed motor maintenance & rebuilds suck.

Which ESC do you suggest to start with?

How are these sensored outrunners in water?

Are the voltage and gearing characteristics / needs the same for sensored outrunner motors as for non sensored outrunners?

Will 3S be enough in 6 pound MOA comp trucks, or would 4S be the starting point?

Which motor and voltage will be best in 8 - 10 scalers?

Which motor will be best for 7 pound Wraith for speed?

Which motor will be best for a water crossing FOFF?

I have a big and heavy 6x6 in the works to. I would like for it to have torque with some speed if possible. It's gonna weigh 15 pounds or more once it's completed. What would be your motor and voltage recommendation for it?

Sorry for all the questions JRH, but I am so excited for these new motors. You are doing awesome work

[k goodrich]

Can't wait to hear from someone testing these motors in a wraith.

[losikid]

Originally Posted by JohnRobHolmes

We are sending out the beta run of 8 magnet motors starting Monday. In the next few weeks I will receive the beta versions of the 14 magnet design, 1000kv through 3000kv, Stubby through TorqueMonster frames.

3000 kv stubby? I want one for my losi ...i'll be waiting to order.

Originally Posted by JohnRobHolmes

Slimline version

Sounds even better,

Originally Posted by JohnRobHolmes

how it handles the worm drive. I suspect most motors will run hot in the losi

Hot compared to an in runner or just hot in general?

[DRTMI]

Just read through this. This sounds really good, cant wait for next month.

[Almighty Malach]

Originally Posted by JohnRobHolmes

Who wouldn't want to trade a 5 or 6 ounce motor for a 3.5 ounce motor when the cost is less, efficiency is higher, and longevity of the motor is measured in bearing life instead of brush life?

I see a 3 pound xr in my future. I would really like to test something like this, I'm going to be picking your brain all weekend at ECC

Originally Posted by Nabil

The one I got coming is going in one of the worm drive trucks too. It's gonna replace that hh 17.5 sensored motor I ran at nats 2010

Is that going to be your 2012 comeback rig?

[JohnRobHolmes]

Good questions here, answers in color

Originally Posted by Nova's Ark

When can your testers buy these JRH? I'm ready to test. You know how much I love out runners and this is the next evolution in crawling. Brushed motor maintenance & rebuilds suck.

I'm sending out the first batch of 8 magnet motors this week, email me if you want to try one. I have a few left.

Which ESC do you suggest to start with?

anything sensored, I've used the RS and the Mamba Max Pro

How are these sensored outrunners in water?

Just fine with the sensor board coated and the sensor plug slathered in dialectric grease

Are the voltage and gearing characteristics / needs the same for sensored outrunner motors as for non sensored outrunners?

Yep, basic motor theory still applies

Will 3S be enough in 6 pound MOA comp trucks, or would 4S be the starting point?

Depends on the KV you select and the wheelspeed you want. The 2000kv version is very happy on 2s and 3s, most people would run 3s. 4s gets a bit nutty

Which motor and voltage will be best in 8 - 10 scalers?

The 540 frame on 3s

Which motor will be best for 7 pound Wraith for speed?

Not determined yet, I'm still working on the high speed versions

Which motor will be best for a water crossing FOFF?

Probably a high speed version. If you want faster than 3000kv an inrunner is probably better

I have a big and heavy 6x6 in the works to. I would like for it to have torque with some speed if possible. It's gonna weigh 15 pounds or more once it's completed. What would be your motor and voltage recommendation for it?

The TorqueMonster frame on 3s or 4s, absolutely

Sorry for all the questions JRH, but I am so excited for these new motors. You are doing awesome work

As to "how hot" in the losi, I will wait for some good testing before I can answer. Everything runs hot in the losi.

[EeePee]

Hey, how's this huge ass thing supposed to fit in here?






Just kidding, that's a Hacker A40-10L 8 pole. This sentence made me think of it.

Originally Posted by JohnRobHolmes

Everything runs hot in the losi.

The Hacker has a turbine on the back for cooling in helicopters.

OG Revolver sighting.

[JohnRobHolmes]

Now for some gritty details of the Beta run of the 8 magnet motors going out this week for testing.

"540" frame size
4.8 ounces (with wire)
2000kv
8 Skewed magnets (4 pole pair)
12 slot
3s to 4s capable, but tests well on 6s too
Japanese bearings
Hardened shaft with 1/8" diameter for regular pinions


The 8 magnet motor is my first run to see just how "bad" the startup can be on a high speed version. It was never planned to be a production run, but feedback was telling me that a 30,000 rpm capable outrunner was wanted. So I got parts to build a small batch. From my testing it is absolutely acceptable for trail running and fun bashing, but more testing is needed to see if the startup is OK for competing. I also opted to have no venting to test the heat soaking of this design. Regular versions will have an integrated centrifugal fan and 14 magnets for optimal performance and highest torque density.


This is the motor I built for Nabil today. Special edition blue to help spot these VS regular versions. A little upskirt for you pervs. You can see the skewed magnets, they are a full pitch skew to take full advantage of the design. That means the magnet skew travels 1/2 the distance of a pole. Any more just reduces efficiency. Any less and the efficiency hit is greater than the gain of startup smoothness. Click for big pic.




Next is the mounting face. The design is modular so that it can be torn down and reassembled fast without any permanent fixtures. Need to swap out the sensor board? Four screws removes the face from the stator. You can also see the sensor plug built into the motor. While it is not easy to use while installed in a vehicle, there was no other way to build it without a 90 degree header. 90 degree headers are prone to breakage and would easily get debris between the pins- both very bad things. We may offer this as an option in the future if enough people want it though. Another option may be sensor harness directly soldered into the board for less likelyhood of coming unplugged.




Next is a comparison between a regular 540 and the Revolver S 540. The production version will be about 2mm longer because we have plenty of room to spare on length. The extra 2mm will also increase torque by 10% Even with 6" of 16ga wire this motor is 25% lighter than a regular 3 slot 540. 4.8 ounces VS 6.5 ounces. The regular version is estimated at 5.34 ounces WITH wires and bullets because of the higher magnet fill. Without wires and bullets the production version is 4.9 ounces, still 75% less weight than a 540. But with ohh so much more torque...




Mechanical leverage of the Revolver S "540" frame is 62% higher than a 540 brushed motor keeping all else equal. Considering the higher flux density, higher pole count, higher low speed efficiency, and lower inductance, my "TorqueMaster" brand name should actually be on this motor instead of the 540 brushed motors

[JohnRobHolmes]

Pretty sweet fan on the end of those motors. I went with a less aggressive design at first because I'm afraid we would suck in dirt and rocks with higher airflow.

[TEDROCKZ]

Looks good









Now send me one to put in my scaler

[EeePee]

Originally Posted by JohnRobHolmes

A little upskirt for you pervs.

Thanks.

One thing that bugs me about the older Novak BL motors was the hardwired sensor lead, please don't consider that.

Use a TQ Racing super flexible sensor lead, and everything should be fine.

Cool motor dude, glad to see it coming around.

[4xFord]

Oh my those are sweet! I'm going to have to wait for the 14 mag motors and try them in the XR for sure! Would be great to loose the weight and service intervals.

[JohnRobHolmes]

If I have any left I will bring them to ECC for testing, or maybe even giveaway...



Point of interest, the 8 mag can be converted to 16 mag. it 1/2s the KV and doubles the torque. Startup still isn't as good as 14 mag though. We also have the ability to slap 10 magnet cans on regular 14 magnet for people who want 40% more speed, but the phase wires change and rotation direction changes too. At least that was the case last time I did it... I could be wrong on that part as it was done in a hurry. At any rate it is nice to slap a new can on for trail running, then pop the slower can on for technical days or comps.

[JohnRobHolmes]

I'll try to get a vid edited by tomorrow. I gotta get some rest now, I've been working since 3:30 this morning.

[sloppy]

awesome to see this is moving I cant wait to get one..

[SVEN]

Ooooh, getting anxious. I've had something designed for 1 year 4 months and 23 days just for this motor.

Question: I can't tell from the pic, but can the shaft extend out the 'base' or other end of the can like a typical outrunner? It looks like it may be closed on the bottom, but I can't tell for sure.