So, I guess I'm a Chump..............

[gunnar]

Originally Posted by Farmer

...I'm used to a servo sitting more straight up than on a angle towards the front

This is one of the main reasons I notched the tube to stand up the servo better. With these clocked C setups, getting the tie rod to move just above the 4th gear area of the gearbox will give max throw without hitting anything, the tierod hitting the servo is the limiting factor. This is why I tilted the servo as far back as possible, to make more room for the tierod, and also to reduce the angle between the servo horn and steering arms. If the horn is high enough, you can also have the drag link just above the tierod, bolted under the horn, which is also beneficial to a good steering setup.

It looks like your setup should work though, hopefully tou will come up with something.

[Erik D_lux]

Gunner, do you mean that the drag link hits the servo? My tie rod and others I have looked at on wraith setups look to have plenty of room as far as the tie rods are concerned.

If you move the servo so its clocked more level to the bottom of the gear box, you will run into issues fitting the motor (like Gunner found out). Its a fine line where you clock the servo. With a million different combinations of knuckle, servos, servo horns, C hubs, steering arms, tie rods, drag links, caster angle, gear box clocking, pinion sizes, motor surface milled or not etc,. there is no such thing as a universal setup. All I can do is plant the happiest medium I can and roll with it.

The tubes were designed around 50* steering angles. I am assuming you would not be having issues if you stopped at that angle? If there is anything I can do to make the "universal" setup better, I am all ears. Just keep in mind, what is good for you is not necessarily going to help anybody else.




My suggestions would be:

Try and move the servo so the horn is closer to the knuckle. I am assuming this is where some of your problem lies as the drag link is hitting the servo. If you dont like this option, I saw that Crawler13 put his drag link on a spacer on the knuckle to get it up higher to clear. You could also easily run a bent drag link.

My setup is night and day different and so are all the ones I have personally built, however, on 50* steering setups, I usually put a tiny, tiny (5*?) bend on the tie rod on the gear box side. This make it clear perfect. On non zero ack setups, I have to do a more extreme bend like a 15* just on that one side to work. Since I have gone to 60* steering, I had to get a bit more wild on my tie rod bends. I bent it maybe 15* on each side right next to the rod ends. This actually made it much better as it rides along the servo mount the entire time giving me a much better approach angle than I have ever had. I will get you a picture if you think it will help you.

Its near impossible for me to troubleshoot such tight tolerances over the net. I am more than glad to help though. If you can, post some pictures with some better light and show where your contact points are and we can work around those.

[95geo]

I mounted my servo so it is as narrow as possible between the tube and the motor. It allows me to just barely get everything in place and get the mesh required on a 15t pinion gear.

Looking good, Farmer!

[Farmer]

Great info guys, I'm gonna get back on it this weekend and hope to make it work out. I have played with it some tonight and I'm getting closer . I still have a couple issues that bug me so I'm gonna wait till I get home on Saturday to meet up with binary terror to use his bender to fine tune some things Dlux please post up some pics of your steering for me if you get a chance. Man I can't wait to drive this thing.
Later,
Farmer

[gunnar]

Originally Posted by Erik D_lux

Gunner, do you mean that the drag link hits the servo? My tie rod and others I have looked at on wraith setups look to have plenty of room as far as the tie rods are concerned.

If you move the servo so its clocked more level to the bottom of the gear box, you will run into issues fitting the motor (like Gunner found out). Its a fine line where you clock the servo. With a million different combinations of knuckle, servos, servo horns, C hubs, steering arms, tie rods, drag links, caster angle, gear box clocking, pinion sizes, motor surface milled or not etc,. there is no such thing as a universal setup. All I can do is plant the happiest medium I can and roll with it.

The tubes were designed around 50* steering angles. I am assuming you would not be having issues if you stopped at that angle? If there is anything I can do to make the "universal" setup better, I am all ears. Just keep in mind, what is good for you is not necessarily going to help anybody else.

If the draglink rodend is mounted under the horn, yes it will hit the servo body, definately limiting it's throw. But the benefit is a reduced angle between tierod and draglink, making the steering more efficient. If the parts are set up right, this isn't a big problem, but it is usually easier to set if the rodend is above the horn. As you said, with all the different combinations available, it can be a challenge to set up, so compromises have to made.

Yes, it does take a bit more work to tilt the servo back, but the reduced angle between the servo horn and the steering arm on the knuckle is worth it in my mind. I'll have to detail that a bit more later in my thread.

The great thing about your tubes are the adjustable link mounts, those are what make the tubes easy to set up, and choose whatever clocking you want. With the stock tubes, the unchangable (well, I managed to change them, lol) angle of the link mounts is what limited gearbox clocking, to a degree. With your tubes that last hurdle of the link mounts is gone, which makes things so much easier.
.

[Erik D_lux]

Originally Posted by gunnar

If the draglink rodend is mounted under the horn, yes it will hit the servo body, definately limiting it's throw. But the benefit is a reduced angle between tierod and draglink, making the steering more efficient. If the parts are set up right, this isn't a big problem, but it is usually easier to set if the rodend is above the horn. As you said, with all the different combinations available, it can be a challenge to set up, so compromises have to made.

I was asking what was contacting. I didnt believe it was your tie rod but rather the drag link. I went and looked at your build pics and it does look like its the tie rod. Interesting. My tie rod would have close to 1/4" before it would hit the servo, thats why it didnt seem possible to me.

Originally Posted by gunnar

Yes, it does take a bit more work to tilt the servo back, but the reduced angle between the servo horn and the steering arm on the knuckle is worth it in my mind. I'll have to detail that a bit more later in my thread.

I agree, straight links are ideal, choose your battles.

FWIW, my angles went from about perfect when running 50* to pretty horrible with my new setup. I have not noticed any reduced strength in steering though.

I dont have a set of XR/Wraith knuckles here to see how they react but, it really seems like most could benefit from a more appropriate steering arm? One that is a bit longer and zero ackerman? Seems like those short, stubby, non zero ackerman arms are what really cause all the grief. Does anybody use the zero ack arms? Looks like they are a bit longer too?

Originally Posted by gunnar

The great thing about your tubes are the adjustable link mounts, those are what make the tubes easy to set up, and choose whatever clocking you want. With the stock tubes, the unchangable (well, I managed to change them, lol) angle of the link mounts is what limited gearbox clocking, to a degree. With your tubes that last hurdle of the link mounts is gone, which makes things so much easier.
.

I am glad they worked out and I am glad people are getting the adjustability out of them.

Originally Posted by Farmer

Dlux please post up some pics of your steering for me if you get a chance.

Will do mang. I think with a couple bends here and there, you will have a good setup.

[Erik D_lux]

Here are a couple of shots for you.

In the first three pics, they are a left and right but when turned to the right (right in the picture) you can see that it looks like my tie rod is hitting the servo, which it is, but, it pretty much rides along the servo when straight or when at full lock.

You might already know this but I will explain anyway... when you but a bend in a link and it has two fixed points, it will now rotate. For a tie rod, I have found it to come in very handy. This is how my tie rod slides along my servo mount the entire time. I clock my rod ends/tie rod so that they touch the servo when the tires are straight but you can also pull the tie rod back towards the front of the car since it can rotate on the rod end balls. This makes it so that when I turn, the tie rod rotates forward, never binding but still sliding along the mount. This give the most clearance when approaching an obstacle and the most clearance from tie rod to servo mount.

In the 2nd pic you will see it sliding against the mount and then the 3rd pic shows that it can rotate even further away from the mount if needed.

My tie rod needs to be re done. I just took my old one and kept adding bends until it worked. Now that I know what it needs to look like, I can do a fresh one with a couple of bends rather than a rainbow. Pretty hard to change when its working though...

[gunnar]

That steering looks fine, very tucked in.


A little superglue should fix this, no biggie!

[Erik D_lux]

LOL. Been that way for a long time now. I keep waiting for it to fail but it keeps on truckin.

[TSK]

Chaotic XR bend Ti tie rod works perfect. That's what I'm running now.

[JohnRobHolmes]

The black ano looks great! I think forgoing the type III was a good idea, 3 thou added to bearing surfaces would have killed your press fit tolerances.

[95geo]

Here are a few pics of mine if it helps for a comparison.

[95geo]

POS attachment manager will let me select a whole bunch of files but it won't actually upload them. I'll get them up here in a second...

[95geo]

'Nother

[95geo]

And another...

[95geo]

Last one...

[95geo]

One more showing elevation...

[95geo]

Wow, that last one really shows my sloppy placement of the lightening holes.

What can I say, I was in a hurry and sick of setting up the mill just for some holes. The next one will have a little more attention to detail put into it.

[rob_b]

Originally Posted by 95geo

Wow, that last one really shows my sloppy placement of the lightening holes.

What can I say, I was in a hurry and sick of setting up the mill just for some holes. The next one will have a little more attention to detail put into it.

That's the first thing I noticed in that last picture too

[95geo]

Originally Posted by rob_b

That's the first thing I noticed in that last picture too

Thanks for rubbing it in!