ECX Barrage upgrades

[spoo76]

Originally Posted by Shape_Shifter

Can you tale the shock bodies apart? If so, put a small piece of open cell foam in there then fill the rest with the thickest axle grease you can find. basically your trying to make a constant friction inside. I dont know if these shocks can even be modded.

Are you talking about the hot racing or stock? Either way at this small scale for such light crawlers I'd think foam and grease would make it even stiffer going in, not just the rebound. Would be interesting to see if it worked though.
I personally don't think the Barrage shocks are that bad at all. They are in between the Sumo and Losi for stiffness.


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[Heroesneverquit]

With the springs in and everything you can not flex the suspension even half as much as it could go if the springs were just less stiff.

Are the sumo shocks less stiff?

[spoo76]

Originally Posted by Heroesneverquit

With the springs in and everything you can not flex the suspension even half as much as it could go if the springs were just less stiff.

Are the sumo shocks less stiff?

That would be true with any coil over lol. No springs in the way then yes...the shock will compress more.
Mine flexes fine and seems to only have 1 or 2 mm of travel left on the shock.

Crazy flex is overrated anyway. All it does it make the vehicle less stable and get the wheels and axles caught up in dips and crevices. That's why even in real crawlers they use limit straps so the axle doesn't hang down.

As far as the sumo axles the springs seem very slightly stiffer than the Barrage, but perfectly fine in micros. The shocks on all of them seem smooth however. I've yet to see a complaint about sumo shocks in all these years.
IMO Losi are the softest, yet some people use micro T springs which are shorter and slightly stiffer.
Next is the Barrage, rhen the sumo being slightly stiffer

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[Heroesneverquit]

Hmm. How much flex are you getting before it lifts a tire? Mines getting probably 1.25 inches. Maybe thats normal and I am just expecting too much out of it.

[generalee7]

Originally Posted by Heroesneverquit

Hmm. How much flex are you getting before it lifts a tire? Mines getting probably 1.25 inches. Maybe thats normal and I am just expecting too much out of it.

If you're maxing out the shocks, then thats all the flex you get Its supposed to be a scale truck, not a flex machine.

[Heroesneverquit]

What do you mean by maxed? The shock has way more flex before it will lift a tire. The spring is to stiff to let it be flexed that far though.

[generalee7]

Originally Posted by Heroesneverquit

What do you mean by maxed? The shock has way more flex before it will lift a tire. The spring is to stiff to let it be flexed that far though.

Oh I gotcha. Cut some coils off the springs. I cut 2 rings off the rear coils and 3 off the front now it doesn't sit at full height and it flexes a lot easier. I also wrapped the battery to the servo up front using the stock o-ring to help the front/rear weight bias.

[spoo76]

I've seen a lot of discussion on if the Losi motor will fit the Barrage or not so I decided to confirm it.
It's obviously shorter, and a very tiny bit more skinny. You'll need the Losi motor screws, and depending on your pinion you'll need to slot the motor plate holes to get it to mesh. A stock Losi motor isn't likely to be much of an upgrade, but a DDT predator motor with a smaller pinion may be.

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[generalee7]

Originally Posted by spoo76

I've seen a lot of discussion on if the Losi motor will fit the Barrage or not so I decided to confirm it.
It's obviously shorter, and a very tiny bit more skinny. You'll need the Losi motor screws, and depending on your pinion you'll need to slot the motor plate holes to get it to mesh. A stock Losi motor isn't likely to be much of an upgrade, but a DDT predator motor with a smaller pinion may be.

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Is that motor supposed to be slower than stock or faster? I could use a slower motor in mine (more turns).

[generalee7]

Turns out I can't find that motor online anywhere anyway

[spoo76]

The number of turns a brushed motor has referrers to how many winds of copper it has around the armature.
Higher turn motors are slower and have more torque. Lower turn motors are faster and have less torque.

The only way to get the motors is to send Dan Tryon aka Danally a Losi micro motor to be rewound. The motors are discontinued so you'd have to search for one. None of the other motors in this size can be rewound. like the ECX temper for example.

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[generalee7]

Originally Posted by spoo76

The number of turns a brushed motor has referrers to how many winds of copper it has around the armature.
Higher turn motors are slower and have more torque. Lower turn motors are faster and have less torque.

The only way to get the motors is to send Dan Tryon aka Danally a Losi micro motor to be rewound. The motors are discontinued so you'd have to search for one. None of the other motors in this size can be rewound. like the ECX temper for example.

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I know thats how motors work, I've been around RC's for a long time I was asking specifically about the Predator motor but it didn't matter anyway since you can't buy them anywhere.

[Heroesneverquit]

From what I have been told and read elsewhere the higher turn = more torque is not true.... Just saying. This is a debated topic though so I won't say it is right one way or the other. From what I have found if you use a higher turn motor you end up using less current but the same voltage to achieve the same rpms. This is just from my reading not an end all be all scientific thing. Although the equation is out there.

[spoo76]

Originally Posted by Heroesneverquit

From what I have been told and read elsewhere the higher turn = more torque is not true.... Just saying. This is a debated topic though so I won't say it is right one way or the other. From what I have found if you use a higher turn motor you end up using less current but the same voltage to achieve the same rpms. This is just from my reading not an end all be all scientific thing. Although the equation is out there.

From what I've always read that's true with brushless and high vs low KV. low KV doesn't necessarily mean higher torque. (According to John Holmes from Holmes Hobbies)
But as far as brushed I've only ever heard more turns = a slower motor with more torque. It certainly feels that way as well.
I have a pretty good collection of stock sized predator motors. All are Losi other than one Atomic dual BB and there's a noticable difference in each wind.
My personal preference is 130 big blocks and where I can fit them 180 strokers with neo mags. Once you run a neo mag 180 ( supercharged stroker lol ) you'll never want to go back. It has insane torque and unbelievable low speed control even compared to a 130 big block.
I have more than enough big blocks, strokers, and stock sized predators that I may sell off 5 of my spare stock Losi motors soon. Seems like there's a demand for them again.

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[generalee7]

Originally Posted by spoo76

From what I've always read that's true with brushless and high vs low KV. low KV doesn't necessarily mean higher torque. (According to John Holmes from Holmes Hobbies)
But as far as brushed I've only ever heard more turns = a slower motor with more torque. It certainly feels that way as well.
I have a pretty good collection of stock sized predator motors. All are Losi other than one Atomic dual BB and there's a noticable difference in each wind.
My personal preference is 130 big blocks and where I can fit them 180 strokers with neo mags. Once you run a neo mag 180 ( supercharged stroker lol ) you'll never want to go back. It has insane torque and unbelievable low speed control even compared to a 130 big block.
I have more than enough big blocks, strokers, and stock sized predators that I may sell off 5 of my spare stock Losi motors soon. Seems like there's a demand for them again.

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Let me know if you want to sell one of those Losi motors. I'll send it to Danally to have it re wound with more turns. I don't have high hopes that the Losi plastic pinions will get me where I want to be but they might.

[generalee7]

Here is a picture of the current setup on my Barrage. Re purposed the o ring to tie batteries to the servo, works plenty good. I wanted to get more weight in the front of the rig for climbing purposes.

[spoo76]

Originally Posted by generalee7

Let me know if you want to sell one of those Losi motors. I'll send it to Danally to have it re wound with more turns. I don't have high hopes that the Losi plastic pinions will get me where I want to be but they might.

Sure thing. Have you looked into the brass pinions? (I'm too lazy to scroll back and check lol)

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[Brake Weight]

I put an 80t in my scx10 that previously had a 21t and it's hands down more powerful. Hands down more slower, too, but it will not stop. No argument on the brushed motors.

The brushless is debated but I posed the question in a plane forum and those guys were kinda split on an answer. But some dude chimed in with data using prop thrust and the kV rating was basically a speed rating with BL. There was some deviation in power but using Chinese motors....who knows.

[Shape_Shifter]

I didnt realize the old Losi motors were so rare. I have several. Aren't they just slot car motors?

[generalee7]

Originally Posted by spoo76

Sure thing. Have you looked into the brass pinions? (I'm too lazy to scroll back and check lol)

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I haven't yet. I ordered the Losi pinions before that discussion started. I will now that I know its .3 mod 9t minimum