SORRCA Competition Rules Release - Class Specs and scale points

[Tommy R]

Pictures worked for me. I would say it's pushing it for 50% fender, but should pass for Class 2.

But we can't do this evaluation for everyone's vehicle in this thread.

[sally1800]

Originally Posted by Tommy R

Pictures worked for me. I would say it's pushing it for 50% fender, but should pass for Class 2.

But we can't do this evaluation for everyone's vehicle in this thread.

I know but I thought if we had a few rigs it might help people to see what is ok and so on.

Thanks

[Locked Up]

I can see the pictures in the build thread you sent....
Saydee's Scrambler


That is indeed pushing it. Some people may allow it where others may not.
From the side, most of it is gone. From the top, some of it is gone. From the front all of it is gone.
I'd be inclined to not allow it.
If you had flat fendered it and not cut away as much of the side, I'd probably be OK with it.

However ....
I think you'd have issues with class 2 under section 4.1. From what I see here, this would not be class 2 legal:

[cave-man]

Good job on the rules guys It is obvious a lot of hard work and thinking went into this.

Since every one has a opinion here is mine. The only thing I don't like is recieving a penalty in class 3 for using rear steer or DIG. With all due respect why did you guys decide on that? I can understand only being able to use one or the other but why a penalty?

[sally1800]

Originally Posted by Locked Up

I can see the pictures in the build thread you sent....
Saydee's Scrambler


That is indeed pushing it. Some people may allow it where others may not.
I'd be inclined to not allow it.


I also think you'd have issues with class 2 under section 4.1 but I cannot tell for certain from the pictures I do see.

4.1 No tubbers or rear truggy bed allowed

It is a full Ladder frame

[Tommy R]

Originally Posted by cave-man

Good job on the rules guys It is obvious a lot of hard work and thinking went into this.

Since every one has a opinion here is mine. The only thing I don't like is recieving a penalty in class 3 for using rear steer or DIG. With all due respect why did you guys decide on that? I can understand only being able to use one or the other but why a penalty?

Basically, if there were no penalty, it would effectively become mandatory for the class. RWS/dig do not necessarily "fit" each style of Class 3 rig out there. It would also drive up the cost of entry in an already pretty expensive class.

We voted and decided the best way to keep everyone reasonably happy would be to allow it, but with a relatively small penalty.

[sally1800]

Originally Posted by Locked Up

I can see the pictures in the build thread you sent....
Saydee's Scrambler


That is indeed pushing it. Some people may allow it where others may not.
From the side, most of it is gone. From the top, some of it is gone. From the front all of it is gone.
I'd be inclined to not allow it.
if you had flat fendered it and not cut away as much of the side, I'd probably be OK with it.

However ....
I think you'd have issues with class 2 under section 4.1. From what I see here, this would not be class 2 legal:

Tires are not the quistion. That stuff is very clear.

[Locked Up]

Originally Posted by saydee1800

4.1 No tubbers or rear truggy bed allowed

It is a full Ladder frame

That is from class 1.

I'm talking about class 2, section 4.1. I know that was not your question, I'm just pointing it out to people.

[cave-man]

Originally Posted by Tommy R

Basically, if there were no penalty, it would effectively become mandatory for the class. RWS/dig do not necessarily "fit" each style of Class 3 rig out there. It would also drive up the cost of entry in an already pretty expensive class.

We voted and decided the best way to keep everyone reasonably happy would be to allow it, but with a relatively small penalty.

Thanks for answering so quickly Tommy. I understand, but really that can be said about a lot of things, for example: if 5.75 tire size is the tallest allowed than it will be mandatory to run that tire size. Cost shouldn't be a determining factor in class 3 (IMO). It is a individuals choice to build a highly modified class 3 rig. Thats the beauty of having 3 classes, something for everyone.

Im just giving you guys a hard time, the rules look great I really appreciate the time and effort that you guys have put forth for us. This is the only thing that bothers me and it's a pretty small thing. I know it's hard to please everyone and I hope you don't think Im being negative I just wanted clarification.

Thanks Again.

[sally1800]

Originally Posted by Locked Up

That is from class 1.

I'm talking about class 2, section 4.1. I know that was not your question, I'm just pointing it out to people.

wrong ones

4.1.Vehicle body from front to rear of driver / passenger doors must be wider than the distance between the inside of the front tires

[sally1800]

Class 2 - Performance trail truck ,not necessarily street legal


4.3 All the vehicles, at the minimum, must use: productions style hood, 50% of the production style front fenders, 50% of the production grill, roof (or roll cage if an open top)

I think this is what I was kinda after. There cut but still some left on. Really didn't think that a trail truck need any.



p.s. I am only trying to find out what is the rules. I think us posting this stuff will help other to understand as well. Help to get people trucks into spec.

[Tommy R]

Originally Posted by cave-man

Thanks for answering so quickly Tommy. I understand, but really that can be said about a lot of things, for example: if 5.75 tire size is the tallest allowed than it will be mandatory to run that tire size. Cost shouldn't be a determining factor in class 3 (IMO). It is a individuals choice to build a highly modified class 3 rig. Thats the beauty of having 3 classes, something for everyone.

Im just giving you guys a hard time, the rules look great I really appreciate the time and effort that you guys have put forth for us. This is the only thing that bothers me and it's a pretty small thing. I know it's hard to please everyone and I hope you don't think Im being negative I just wanted clarification.

Thanks Again.

No sweat! This is why this thread is here!

Believe me, we discussed and voted more than you could likely imagine....sometimes on stuff you would think would be easy decisions! Honestly, it gave me confidence in the group because we have/had a lot of different opinions which was healthy for everyone in the end!

It was only after lots of pros/cons were brought up that we made the decisions we made. Basically, we had to consider all of the different participants/rigs that these classes could accommodate and do what we thought would be best to help our sport grow. We knew everyone would not be happy. We all had to concede on many items of discussion, but we feel we have a fair rule set that will keep the majority of the people happy. At least we hope so!!!

[KevenP]

Unless you narrow up the track width, that's a C3 rig. Also, it looks like more than 50% of the front fenders have been removed.


4.1. Vehicle body from front to rear of driver/passenger doors must be wider than the distance between the inside of the front tires.


4.3. All the vehicles, at the minimum, must use: production style hood, 50% of the production
style front fenders, 50% of the production grill, roof (or roll cage if an open top), plus two of the
following:
‐ Windshield and frame
‐ Rear quarter panels
‐ Doors/half doors
‐ Rear Bed/cargo area

[sally1800]

I see something else.
Class 3 it states that you will get penalty point if you engage you rear steer or dig. I have found when mounting a rear steering system you use C-Hub and knuckle just like you do with front steering.
Even if you don't engage your rear steering it will still rotate the wheels a little because they are not lock. Then your turning will become a lot tighter. I have not found a way to lock the rear with steering the same as you would if you ran a straight lock axle. I really don't think there is a way.
So people running a truck with rear steering but never engaged will still have a advantage over a locked axle

[sloppy]

Originally Posted by saydee1800

I see something else.
Class 3 it states that you will get penalty point if you engage you rear steer or dig. I have found when mounting a rear steering system you use C-Hub and knuckle just like you do with front steering.
Even if you don't engage your rear steering it will still rotate the wheels a little because they are not lock. Then your turning will become a lot tighter. I have not found a way to lock the rear with steering the same as you would if you ran a straight lock axle. I really don't think there is a way.
So people running a truck with rear steering but never engaged will still have a advantage over a locked axle

Yes but that is not using the steering system. that is slop in steering linkage. it should be pretty minimal.

I would have to say if your rear steer while not being used wanders enough to actually change the steering abilities I would tell you to fix it or take the point for use..

[sally1800]

Originally Posted by sloppy

Yes but that is not using the steering system. that is slop in steering linkage. it should be pretty minimal.

I would have to say if your rear steer while not being used wanders enough to actually change the steering abilities I would tell you to fix it or take the point for use..

fair just want to get it out there

[Difuser]

Originally Posted by Tommy R

Basically, if there were no penalty, it would effectively become mandatory for the class. RWS/dig do not necessarily "fit" each style of Class 3 rig out there. It would also drive up the cost of entry in an already pretty expensive class.

We voted and decided the best way to keep everyone reasonably happy would be to allow it, but with a relatively small penalty.

Along that train of thought that you are penalized for using your winch as an aid,the thought behind the penalty being that dig or rear steer are also an aid.
As others said it was a hot topic but in the end the logic does play out. Now if you "accidentally" use the second choice it's gonna hurt...

[primus2010]

Originally Posted by Tommy R

Basically, if there were no penalty, it would effectively become mandatory for the class. RWS/dig do not necessarily "fit" each style of Class 3 rig out there. It would also drive up the cost of entry in an already pretty expensive class.

We voted and decided the best way to keep everyone reasonably happy would be to allow it, but with a relatively small penalty.

I can partially agree, but looking at the 1:1 world, rear steer is a big advantage in some areas, but not all. It's also not mandatory for the real deal either, and I can't see it becoming mandatory. As far as cost goes, there are lots of options available now that can get you rear steering for under $50.

I like the fact that these are included, but it seems that with the penalty points that the use of either dig or rear steer is being discouraged, at which point it almost seems useless to use it in a build. For TTC comps, 7 courses is a 35 point penalty if you used it at each gate. I know the new course rules are still being worked on, but that seems like a big hit on points to me.

[War Pig]

Like I said on our board....TTC rules don't apply to these rules. In TTC you can use your winch as much as you want without penalty...same with rear steer or dig. These rules are for a 10 gate scale comp course.

[Difuser]

Originally Posted by primus2010

I can partially agree, but looking at the 1:1 world, rear steer is a big advantage in some areas, but not all. It's also not mandatory for the real deal either, and I can't see it becoming mandatory. As far as cost goes, there are lots of options available now that can get you rear steering for under $50.

I like the fact that these are included, but it seems that with the penalty points that the use of either dig or rear steer is being discouraged, at which point it almost seems useless to use it in a build. For TTC comps, 7 courses is a 35 point penalty if you used it at each gate. I know the new course rules are still being worked on, but that seems like a big hit on points to me.

It is a flat penalty per course, not per gate. For those that think it will help them it is available to use same as a winch, at a penalty. If you don't want to build including dig or 4WS then don't.