Rules, Issues and Public Concerns

[Tgreer]

Originally Posted by EvilTwin v2

It's not the questioning, but how the questioning is done and then the amount of arguing afterward. When people ask questions, we take note of it. It's all taken into account and often impacts our future decisions. Sometimes questions are brought up that we didn't think of...after all, we are only a handful of people discussing things and trying to come up with as many scenarios as possible.

When the questioning gets annoying is when it's been answered over and over and it just seems like you're mad at the answer so you're asking till you get the answer you want.

There are many decisions made, especially with this class, based on a perception of what will encourage new people to show up (and hopefully some old faces to return), without intimidating too many people, yet allowing some modifications. It's a tricky balance to get right, and at least when starting out, it's easier to be a little more strict with the rules, rather than trying later to ban something that was missed.

I understand your point completely on the wheels. But a line had to be drawn somewhere. Who knows, after this season, we may reevaluate the stance on those. It really depends on how it goes once there's a season of competitions under our belts and we can truly evaluate how it went. There will always be some growing pains, but we are learning from the past and trying not to make the same mistakes twice.

I see what your saying, but I continued to argue about the wheels because no one has given any reason for the rule. It just seems like a rule that has been thrown in there just because. By not allowing knuckle weights this has taken any advantage away that a plate wheel would have, so a plate wheel does not give any performance benifit over any other wheel at this point. I know you guys don't like when someone keeps on, but you have to give a real reasons for your rules. Since plate wheels have no performance benifit now, why is it a rule? Is it looks, is it expence, I don't know. The only answer I have been given, is your wheel is a plate wheel we have to draw the line somewhere. What I was looking for is, "we have decided to not allow plate wheels because they........." My question about 4ws and dig had a response that was backed up by WHY they chose to allow it. Anyways, I hope this turns out to be a good class.

[nappahdog]

I like buggy wheels too, I run them on all of my rigs, if there is a beginners class I will not run in it because Im not going to want to degrade any new guys. so it really doesn't matter to me why , and it shouldn't to any seasoned competitor. (run pro, run what you want)

I think the idea is to cater to someone who just bought an off the shelf rig wants to plug it in , and run it. It is not up to an outsider to nitpick the reasoning for rulings whoever made the decision made it for a reason and it should be respected. the other option is to start from scratch yourself and create a new "USRCCA"

On the other hand I hope supers and minis dont die just to cater to a group that would and is being somewhat catered to already.

[Tgreer]

Originally Posted by nappahdog

I like buggy wheels too, I run them on all of my rigs, if there is a beginners class I will not run in it because Im not going to want to degrade any new guys. so it really doesn't matter to me why , and it shouldn't to any seasoned competitor. (run pro, run what you want)

I think the idea is to cater to someone who just bought an off the shelf rig wants to plug it in , and run it. It is not up to an outsider to nitpick the reasoning for rulings whoever made the decision made it for a reason and it should be respected. the other option is to start from scratch yourself and create a new "USRCCA"

On the other hand I hope supers and minis dont die just to cater to a group that would and is being somewhat catered to already.

I respect and follow all there rules, but, I am always going to question. The board is there to represent the crawler community as a whole, it's not there to run the show only how they see fit. They represent what we want as a collective community. I realize the job is not at all easy to do and you can't please everyone. But, at the same time, they have to be able to back up there decisions with sound reasoning, and for the most part they do. Things don't change or evolve without rethinking and questioning

[The Violator]

The class has not even gotten off the ground and the crying has begun:

Why can't I put a body on my 2.2p and run?

Even though the rules say I cannot run pin tires, I should be allowed to because I glued a RC4WD sticker on the side?



I cannot imagine comp crawling would have gotten this far if the level of bitch-ass-ness was around back when the berg first came out. Back in the good old days when you could drive over your own foot if it helped you out.

[The Violator]

Originally Posted by Tgreer

Just so I'm completly clear this is "leagel" by your rules






And this is "NOT leagel"

IMO:

The plastic wheels you listed do not fall into the rules. They do not "represent a full scale wheel".


Of course your wheels ARE made of plates, so they would be out also.

[ROWDY RACING]

Originally Posted by nappahdog

On the other hand I hope supers and minis dont die just to cater to a group that would and is being somewhat catered to already.

As has already been stated the only thing that will kill ANY class will be lack of participation.

[Harvo]

Please.... get OVER it. EVERYONE!

Crawling is a small community of mostly friends. Most of the highly vested people know each other and have met on several occasions.

If a rules committee in some other sport (like NASCAR or Supercross or Short course racing or the Dakar) makes rules... then that's it. Tough noogies whether you like the rules or not. If you want to compete you build to the class rules and play by them. If you argue with the rules committee... they don't care. They don't argue back.

In crawling... the rules committee tries to at least listen to the communities' opinions. Probably too much, and this is why everyone tries to argue with the rules committee. Because they can. Then the people on the rules committee take some offense. (it's hard not to when people who you consider friends are calling the rules you helped make "dumb ass")
Then we argue back.

WE ALL are going to kill crawling if we don't quit arguing about piddly crap like minor truck specs in a new class designed to attract more people to the sport.

I for one am going to compete in the new class. I am going to use my stock wraith, which falls into the new class specs, and put an old school driveshaft dig on it. I'm going to use some 5 year old Scale Shop wheels I had on the shelf collecting dust, and if the truck doesn't meet the minimum weight spec... I'll put lead stick on's in the tires. That's it. Pretty simple... and now I get to run 3 more courses every comp and try to get into nationals in a whole new class.

What's the problem????

[Tgreer]

No cryin from me! I think the class is great! I'm just looking for the "why". I ask about 4ws and dig, and the very next response gave me why they have it. I still have heard no response to why plate wheels are illegal. If the board fills they don't like me to asking and pushing questions, fill free to kick me out of the forum.

It's cool, I have a board member in my club, he doesn't get bent out of shape when I question rules with him, so I will wait until my next club comp and ask him.

[Harvo]

Originally Posted by Tgreer

No cryin from me! I think the class is great! I'm just looking for the "why". I ask about 4ws and dig, and the very next response gave me why they have it. I still have heard no response to why plate wheels are illegal. If the board fills they don't like me to asking and pushing questions, fill free to kick me out of the forum.

It's cool, I have a board member in my club, he doesn't get bent out of shape when I question rules with him, so I will wait until my next club comp and ask him.

It was discussed that carbon fiber and similar materials appear exotic. For now anyway, we are trying to keep the class appearance of "off the shelf". The more exotic something looks, the more intimidating and expensive it looks.

While everyone may not agree or understand... it is what it is.

[Tgreer]

Originally Posted by Harvo

It was discussed that carbon fiber and similar materials appear exotic. For now anyway, we are trying to keep the class appearance of "off the shelf". The more exotic something looks, the more intimidating and expensive it looks.

While everyone may not agree or understand... it is what it is.

Actually looking back, your this first post to say "why" plate wheels are illegal. So the answer is "exotic". Ok, I see that reasoning, 90% of them look very exotic. Answering the "why" works much better than just repeating the rule over and over. Thank you for your answer!

[Harvo]

No problem.

[The Violator]

Originally Posted by Harvo

It was discussed that carbon fiber and similar materials appear exotic. For now anyway, we are trying to keep the class appearance of "off the shelf". The more exotic something looks, the more intimidating and expensive it looks.

While everyone may not agree or understand... it is what it is.

I bet if the "chosen few", some of whom last I checked had not even logged into rcc in a year, posted out in the open about the intentions of the group, maybe more people would understand what was going on. But your secret meetings pushing your private agendas are not available for people to see. So us, the unwashed masses, must live with whatever the royals have declared.


When you cannot muster more than 75 drivers at most comps, maybe the opinion of those 75 should be taken into account, and not just the chosen few.

[Tgreer]

I think that's exactly my frustration, I guess my idea is wrong, but I thought the board represented what the masses wanted. But, it seems that the board and there buddies rule with little to no input from the general crawler community. I bet 99% of the crawler community does not even know who is on the board, how many people are on the board, are these people elected?, do they have to be re elected?, once they are on the board your there forever?, if there is an election who votes and when is it. The board is just to secretive in my opinion.

I love this sport and the comp classes that are going are wonderful, I have all praises for all members on the board for the work they have done to layout all these great comp classes, but I would like to see a more public info. I would like to see posted elections and decisions not so much the wizard of oz behind the curtain stuff.

[ROWDY RACING]

Originally Posted by The Violator

I bet if the "chosen few", some of whom last I checked had not even logged into rcc in a year, posted out in the open about the intentions of the group, maybe more people would understand what was going on. But your secret meetings pushing your private agendas are not available for people to see. So us, the unwashed masses, must live with whatever the royals have declared.


When you cannot muster more than 75 drivers at most comps, maybe the opinion of those 75 should be taken into account, and not just the chosen few.

The opinion of the masses is taken into consideration, your chit chat thread influenced the new class. Our only agenda is to grow the hobby.

Originally Posted by Tgreer

I think that's exactly my frustration, I guess my idea is wrong, but I thought the board represented what the masses wanted. But, it seems that the board and there buddies rule with little to no input from the general crawler community. I bet 99% of the crawler community does not even know who is on the board, how many people are on the board, are these people elected?, do they have to be re elected?, once they are on the board your there forever?, if there is an election who votes and when is it. The board is just to secretive in my opinion.

I love this sport and the comp classes that are going are wonderful, I have all praises for all members on the board for the work they have done to layout all these great comp classes, but I would like to see a more public info. I would like to see posted elections and decisions not so much the wizard of oz behind the curtain stuff.

The list of rules committee members can be found at the bottom of the main page below the classifieds under view forum leaders.

[Tgreer]

Originally Posted by ROWDY RACING

The list of rules committee members can be found at the bottom of the main page below the classifieds under view forum leaders.

Umm, that only list the board members, that doesn't answer any of the questions I posted other than who is on the board, and I garuntee there are many many others that are curios like me to know about all the other questions I asked.

[ROWDY RACING]

Originally Posted by Tgreer

Umm, that only list the board members, that doesn't answer any of the questions I posted other than who is on the board, and I garuntee there are many many others that are curios like me to know about all the other questions I asked.

I answered what I could, fishmaxx is the leader of the USRCCA and the rules committee. When the committee was first created there was supposed to be a member to represent each state or region, I have never heard of any elections.

Members from these regions are supposed to use feedback from people in their area to influence decisions made in the committee, does this happen in your club?

[The Violator]

Originally Posted by ROWDY RACING

I answered what I could, fishmaxx is the leader of the USRCCA and the rules committee. When the committee was first created there was supposed to be a member to represent each state or region, I have never heard of any elections.

Members from these regions are supposed to use feedback from people in their area to influence decisions made in the committee, does this happen in your club?

The Rules committee area should be open to for everyone to see. I would not allow anyone but the royals to post, but at least the rest could see whom is supporting and debating what. That would then allow the masses to get with their rep and voice an opinion.



Of course it is your ball, so it is your rules. And you can continue to enjoy the negative growth until it is just the rules committee at a comp talking about how great things are.

[Tgreer]

Originally Posted by ROWDY RACING

I answered what I could, fishmaxx is the leader of the USRCCA and the rules committee. When the committee was first created there was supposed to be a member to represent each state or region, I have never heard of any elections.

Members from these regions are supposed to use feedback from people in their area to influence decisions made in the committee, does this happen in your club?

I never hear Ricky or Shane ask anyone anything about a proposed trail class. I didn't even know Shane was a member. They are both great and Rickey will answer anything I ask, but they don't nessisarily ask our opinion on things. Opinions need to be asked on a larger level, not just the small number of board members asking questions at there local club. This is why we have a forum, you guys need to be more public. Tell me how you get elected, tell who votes people on the board, tell me how long your term is or is it as long as you want. The public wants to know this stuff, give the public input on voting and putting members on the board. You guys need accountability, and so the public needs more input to give you guys this accountability.

Rowdy, that's a very shady answer! You KNOW how you got on the board, and if your not allowed to say, then something is wrong with that!

[ROWDY RACING]

Originally Posted by The Violator

The Rules committee area should be open to for everyone to see. I would not allow anyone but the royals to post, but at least the rest could see whom is supporting and debating what. That would then allow the masses to get with their rep and voice an opinion.



Of course it is your ball, so it is your rules. And you can continue to enjoy the negative growth until it is just the rules committee at a comp talking about how great things are.

The royal reps are supposed to get the opinions from the masses in their clubs to be used to influence committee decisions.

I am but one member of the committee and one of few that actually address and attempt to answer questions and explain things in these public threads. Like I said I am not the committee leader and have no control over the order of operations.

[ROWDY RACING]

Originally Posted by Tgreer

I never hear Ricky or Shane ask anyone anything about a proposed trail class. I didn't even know Shane was a member. They are both great and Rickey will answer anything I ask, but they don't nessisarily ask our opinion on things. Opinions need to be asked on a larger level, not just the small number of board members asking questions at there local club. This is why we have a forum, you guys need to be more public. Tell me how you get elected, tell who votes people on the board, tell me how long your term is or is it as long as you want. The public wants to know this stuff, give the public input on voting and putting members on the board. You guys need accountability, and so the public needs more input to give you guys this accountability.

Shane is new to the committee, Ricky has been on board longer than me. Like I said I have not heard anything about elections, there was no representation in my area so I was invited to do so. I talked about this class with members of my club and so did other committee members, I'm sorry this didnt happen in yours.