Rules, Issues and Public Concerns

[articzap]

That is an awesome idea for two different kinds of judges when signing up! Brilliant!

[JeremyH]

Originally Posted by articzap

I've been called for reverses while I was upside down before. Hmm yeah, my trust has went down after that happened.

When that happens, you should ask the judge to stop the time and explain to him that is not a penalty. If he still disagrees, then call over an event marshall (who should have a copy of the rules on hand).

[Rockpiledriver]

Originally Posted by articzap

Ideally paid, non competing, judges are what's needed. But where are you going to find those people?

Another thing I have been saying for years.

I think you'd be amazed at what people will do if the price is right. I have no interest in competing anymore but for the right price, and in the interest of helping, I'd go judge.

[rock hard]

Originally Posted by articzap

That is an awesome idea for two different kinds of judges when signing up! Brilliant!

I sense sarcasme
If you dont have a problem getting judges to sign up, then no problem.
But if you need to get more judges, then I think keeping scribers seperat has potential to deliver the desired results

After all....there is 2 different specific duties of judges ( clarified in the rules )
the spoter is the one that calls penalties, and is the one that needs the best knowledge of the rules

The scriber writes down and tallies,the scriber is clarical, not technical


I mean look, appearently at vegas it was just one judge per driver, and that seems to leave the window open for error cuz the judge cant keep eyes on driver spoting if they are writting down penalties......anyone can write.....let em.

its still work, cuz they will be on thier feet, they still cant hang with thier buds, but they have little to no stress of someone
telling them thier call was bad......they are more likely to step up

and if you dont like the idea of 2 seperate judges list......call em scribers....not judges

[articzap]

Originally Posted by JeremyH

When that happens, you should ask the judge to stop the time and explain to him that is not a penalty. If he still disagrees, then call over an event marshall (who should have a copy of the rules on hand).

This happened at my first ever national event a couple years back. I didn't know what to do. I'm much wiser now.

[HARDKNOCKZ]

Im all for multiple judges per driver but mistakes happen & calls get missed with 1 judge or 10 judges. Its just how it goes. We've all had a bad call ruin our day & I'd suspect a few missed calls improve it. Again...its the nature of competition. I DO understand that 4 eyes are better than 2...6 better than 4 but doubt ANYTHING we do will completely solve missed or bad calls.

I don't think the 2 timers is a realistic option simply because it will be next to impossible to synchronize the 2 100% of the time. So which is the one used when this happens? If i blow thru the finish gate as timer 1 is going off but timer 2 goes off a second later giving me the finish...that opens the door to conflict. 1 timer works fine. Again...we've all had errors in our favor as well as against it. Just gotta roll with certain punches & accept the fact that the judges are human beings & this isn't computer controlled drag racing.

J.D.

[rock hard]

Originally Posted by HARDKNOCKZ

Im all for multiple judges per driver but mistakes happen & calls get missed with 1 judge or 10 judges. Its just how it goes. We've all had a bad call ruin our day & I'd suspect a few missed calls improve it. Again...its the nature of competition. I DO understand that 4 eyes are better than 2...6 better than 4 but doubt ANYTHING we do will completely solve missed or bad calls.

I don't think the 2 timers is a realistic option simply because it will be next to impossible to synchronize the 2 100% of the time. So which is the one used when this happens? If i blow thru the finish gate as timer 1 is going off but timer 2 goes off a second later giving me the finish...that opens the door to conflict. 1 timer works fine. Again...we've all had errors in our favor as well as against it. Just gotta roll with certain punches & accept the fact that the judges are human beings & this isn't computer controlled drag racing.

J.D.

IMO the spoters timmer should be used, less there is a problem ( I mean how hard is it to have a timmer in everyones hand )

timers dont have to be syncronised, everyone starts when the truck crosses the line ( good enough )

I just know the only real issue I have seen as a scriber is time, its happened to me, and I have seen it hapen to others. Not a big deal if you catch it fast, but what If your 1/2 way through the course, and you realize that the timer didint start after the driver repositioned, or worse, you hit the clear button, ect.....at that point judges are simply attemtping to be fair as they determin what the time actually is ( approximatly )

I mean at local comps, who cares really, sht happens....but at a larger venue, its simple insurance...
and so long as there is a set of guidlines ( spoters time is used for time ) ect.
Then the additional timer is just that.....additional...not needed, but nice to have and easy to accomplish.

[ROCKEDUP RICKY]

Originally Posted by team3six

You know, I am really pissed off right now.
Crist as long as Ricky likes the fawking post it must be alright.

Why do you have a hard on for me , really. I don't joke around in any of your threads like you asked. I try not to post in anything your in. But you just are picking on me for some reason. What ever I done PM me and we can work it out.

[3jeeps]

I don't really want to jump into the hornets nest except to comment on the judging. I was a judge at 2 national events this year for the 1st time and I know I made at least one mistake...Fish and The EYE called me out on it and it was because I was writing on the score sheet while the driver was driving on the cement floor to another section of rock at the Rox Box and he drove his truck into someone. I did just plain missed it. Otherwise for the rest of the weekend I think I did OK, I judged 2.2 with Kratos so maybe he can chime in with his opinion on my 1st time.
Since most national level comps are running 2.2s for "fun", have us new judges judge 2.2s and make the calls with the more experienced judge taking care of the time and points. I think the more experienced judges would still see missed calls and would have the right to correct us rookies, then us rookies could scribe to let the more experienced judge 2.2 pro. I know I can watch something and get an idea of what you need to do but you don't really know untill you do it. Or I could just bring my camera and take pictures with sven.

[BC-Brian]

Along the concept of getting more judges. With the right score card and good communication between the scribe and the judge you could afford to have a "non crawler" as the scribe. Primary judge hollars the penalties and progresses and the scribe records them. All the scribe needs to do is keep up with the penalty count and keep time.

You could go to digital scoring too (We have been using tablets at our Boston Crawlers event for a few years).


This is last years version, it has changed/improved a little since then.

[HARDKNOCKZ]

You have 10 min courses?

[BC-Brian]

Originally Posted by HARDKNOCKZ

You have 10 min courses?

Ha ha, not for a long time. This past year we ran 10 gates + 5 bonus in 6 minutes. Same format used at 2011 nats.

Not sure why the 10:00 was in there.... shrug.

[mark reel]

Originally Posted by Rockpiledriver

Another thing I have been saying for years.

I think you'd be amazed at what people will do if the price is right. I have no interest in competing anymore but for the right price, and in the interest of helping, I'd go judge.

what do you guys have in mind for Paying judges dollar wise ?
finding 10-12 judges that are not competing IMO will be nearly impossible ( i could see this happening for nationals with the right $$ amount) but not every qualifying event.
but even if half the field or even a couple of the guys that want to hang out and judge and help the sport evolve would be cool.

whats a $$ that would get guys to judge ?

[JeremyH]

Originally Posted by mark reel

finding 10-12 judges that are not competing IMO will be nearly impossible ( i could see this happening for nationals with the right $$ amount) but not every qualifying event.

I think it might be tough for the 2.2p class, but not for the others. There are always more 2.2p competitors than in any other class. Looking for guys not running 1.9, 2.2s and super shouldn't be too tough...

[mark reel]

Originally Posted by JeremyH

I think it might be tough for the 2.2p class, but not for the others. There are always more 2.2p competitors than in any other class. Looking for guys not running 1.9, 2.2s and super shouldn't be too tough...

yeah thats what i what i was thinking tough for the 2.2P class

[JeremyH]

I think that for the 2.2p class, the USRCCA might need to attempt to make it worth the while for the judges......more $$ than just the cost of a ticket.

[ROCKEDUP RICKY]

Originally Posted by JeremyH

I think that for the 2.2p class, the USRCCA might need to attempt to make it worth the while for the judges......more $$ than just the cost of a ticket.

Lunch!

You know just like anything else, the cost will trinkle on down to the tickets.

[JeremyH]

Originally Posted by ROCKEDUP RICKY

You know just like anything else, the cost will trinkle on down to the tickets.

My entry fees for Nats a few months ago was pushing $300....certainly some of those fees went "unused" somewhere....

[chad30w]

I see them guys all over Dallas and surrounding overpasses will work for food, good idea Ricky! You shou like thisost then it will be ok

[articzap]

Originally Posted by JeremyH

I think that for the 2.2p class, the USRCCA might need to attempt to make it worth the while for the judges......more $$ than just the cost of a ticket.

But you can't just tell someone they're gonna get $xxx. Then they'll do it just for the money and not care about the outcome.

There is zero way to setup a system of checks and balances so the judges only get paid if they properly do their job.