What's with the shift to scale?

[Super]

Originally Posted by stubs179

And i don't agree with the, "I can't compete against wallets." Until about 5 months ago i was competing with a bully with scraped together used parts and i did just fine. It was a low budget rig but i think as long as you have an MOA and spend the time to tune it in you can be competitive.

I agree, I ran my AX-10 with no dig or steering mods and a Betty body and finished 3rd behind a Burg and a Bully and ahead of an other Bully. All very good drivers. If you have the drive and "listen to the suggestions
" you will do well with out a bottomless wallet. I haven't comped for a whole year. For one I took me that long to build my Bully and we have two places to comp. Like said before, Scaling has no B.S.


Thanks again Stubs, Your advice for shock set up for my Bully was spot on!

[C*H*U*D]

Originally Posted by Kraqa

I was just curious what has caused the huge influx in scale rig.

I'm trying to figure out why Rally is becoming so popular all of a sudden...What the Heck is that all about ??

[sloppy]

Originally Posted by C*H*U*D

I'm trying to figure out why Rally is becoming so popular all of a sudden...What the Heck is that all about ??

its fun

[crawl-o-matic]

The reports of my death are greatly exaggerated.

-Comp Crawler

[Mud Puppy]

I have an AX-10 with no stock parts left and a nearly-stock SCX-10.

In a comp with the AX-10 I don't have a hope against the guys with the best of everything, even in a rookie class. That gets dull fast.

In a comp with the SCX-10 I can come in 4th or 5th out of 20 in rookie class. What's more my son always seems to come in one spot behind me. Yeah the two guys with the $$$ and all the right gear always win, but the rest of us aren't far behind.

I love playing with both rigs, but honestly the SCX-10 is more fun, partly due to it's limitations.

I saw the same thing with 1:1 rigs when I had a Jeep. I had 33" tires and every skid plate known to man, and when I couldn't make something I would flop it on top and winch over. With that rig I could find dozens of fun and challenging trails within an hour drive. A buddy built a killer TJ on 39s and quickly found wheeling wasn't much fun anymore. All the local trails were now like driving a paved road, and gloating about having the best rig got old fast when he saw how much fun we had actually driving our "small" rigs. That's where my handle "Mud Puppy" comes from. I was the little guy who would go anywhere and do it with a playful mood.

[ev0l]

I kinda understand where he is coming from, I just didn't get it. I started on a 2.2 shafty and scale just seemed dumb. But.....the more I was around it I got hooked and now I love it.

I do both now, Comp scratches my competitive itch, and scale allow me to kick back with the guys and have a good time.

Don't knock it till you try it.

[C*H*U*D]

Originally Posted by sloppy

its fun

Tell me about it! I just had 3 more 4000mAh batteries and 100' of firehose show up yesterday

Ty is making me go broke though...

[Duuuuuuuude]

Originally Posted by JeremyH

Just like the rest of life.....no matter how hard you try, you can never make everyone equal.

I started short course racing late last year. The trucks in stock class all perform very similar to each other. No performance mods, no expensive electronics, stock tires, etc etc etc. They're even dyno'd to keep the speeds somewhat the same across the field. Guess who win most of the races? The ones with the most skill.

Granted, driving around in the dirt is not quite the same as climbing over rocks, but chances are that if you got your ass handed to you it was by someone with more driving skill than you have.

I compete with the same (though now highly modified) AX10 rig I started out with nearly 4 years ago, and I still run with the same guys. They still beat me now as they did then. Partly because they have more capable rigs, but mostly because they are more capable drivers. Hell, I can look at the sign-up sheet and pretty much tell where I'm going to place before the comp even starts.

Putting my non-dig shafty up against a field of full-tilt moa's (yes, I run 2.2 pro) does not instill a great deal of enthusiasm when it comes to the prospect of making a podium finish, but I would be lying if I said I didn't still have a crap-load of fun. I drive my rig to the best of my (and its) abilities and have enough maturity to know that if I do exceptionally crappy, its my fault. At the end of the day I still got to spend a few hours hanging out with my friends, driving our toys, talking smack, making jokes, and having a good time.

I love the fact that the comp class rigs are getting crazy redesigns every year. They should be. If they weren't, we should all be worried.

As far as looking the same, sure, I guess so. But I don't know anyone who goes to a comp to look at the pretty trucks.

The only way to keep an even playing field is to create a new, box stock class. I would make a bet that those who complain now and feel they have to have the best rig available would still complain in a RTR class about having to comp against a superior box stock rig that they are getting beaten with. You can't make everyone happy, especially those who do not want to commit the time and effort to be good at it.

These are toys, and toys are for fun. If you're not having fun then you are taking it too seriously.

[Reflection]

Originally Posted by SINister

Even more off topic.
I would race the #$@% out of a lawn mower if they did that around here.

You should come watch the lawnmower demolition derby sometime. It's a riot.

[BiG_DaWgZ]

I agree with what's been said above by about 75% of the posters in this thread !

Originally Posted by ManxCrawler

even so, scalers will go exactly the same way, big wallets will ultimately start turning people away to something else

I think that you're really missing the whole IDEA of Scaler's.....when I look at this statement !

To me...the allure of Scaler's is that you don't have to have a "Big Wallet"...to be able to have fun.


You can even build a pretty competitive Class 1 or 2 scaler...for very little money...especially if you're using slightly used parts. (which also holds true for many other classes and types of RC's)

BUT...the main thing that I like about scalers....is that sometimes...it's even MORE FUN...to be able to see what you can accomplish with a nearly BONE stock rig....than with an uber-modded rig...in my opinion !


Also...you don't even have to abide by "class 1 or 2 rules"....if you don't want to.

Any group of guys can get together and make up whatever rules they want....and this is MUCH easier to do...with scalers....than it would be with Comp type rigs...I would think.


As long as Class 1 scaler rules stay centered on allowing mostly "stock" type rigs...with tire height restrictions (along with body/tire width coverage having to meet guidelines)....that will stay that way for a long time...I would think.



To me...when I look thru comp rig builds...and see alot of pics or vids of them all competing...ALOT of them look almost IDENTICAL...if they have a body....usually 95% of them run a certain type of body that has nice roll-over abilities....and the only VISUAL difference are on tire/wheel setups...and paint jobs.

Of course I KNOW that's not true...but that's what it looks like.

With scaler's...you get alot more guys putting unique details....body mods...custom interiors...scratch built pieces and parts on them....and that's what makes it BETTER to me anyways.



Just like in real life...1:1's....me...and all of my buddies....ALWAYS liked to be that guy with the little 31"s or 33" tires on our trucks.....with a lil 4 cyl....that could hang with (or even better....BEAT)...."THAT GUY" with the "Big Wallet Rig"


I was drawn into RC's...purely by the chance viewing of an old Tamiya Bruiser Toyota video on You Tube...about 3-4 yrs ago.

That truck and the way the guy shot the video....made it look almost real...and I was just blown away and had to learn more.

Of course all of the other things that I like about scaler's...has already been mentioned many times in this thread.


COMP rigs have always been something that I thought were really cool...but to me...just not worth it.

If I lived in an area where many guys....held comp's...I'm sure that I'd be into them and have at least one shafty and one MOA....but that's not the case.

Also...if there was a decent ShortCourse track near me...with a good turnout....I wouldn't have sold my ShortCourse trucks a year or 2 ago..

To me...comp rigs and shortcourse...aren't any fun unless you have a convenient and POPULAR...nearby place to go to with them.

SCALER'S....on the other hand...can be ran anywhere because you can make a challenging "Scaler course"...in just about ANY ditch, creek bottom, woods..stair steps....skate parks...walking/hiking trails....backyard "ROCK GARDEN" courses...etc.

PLUS...it seems to be alot easier to find local's in most any area...who are interested in scalers and can get into them on the cheap.




Aron

[JeremyH]

Originally Posted by dezfan

The crawlbots expense and increasing complex rules drove me away from comp crawling. I love the individuality, creativity, and relaxed atmosphere of scaling.

Hopefully we can keep it this way and not let the scale rules get in the way.

I am sure the Scalicons are just a few major national comps away from a complete rules rewrite telling you which truck to build for which class and trying to keep people who push the limits under control....

Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude

No performance mods, no expensive electronics, stock tires, etc etc etc. They're even dyno'd to keep the speeds somewhat the same across the field. Guess who win most of the races? The ones with the most skill.

Imagine that, practice does make perfect!

Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude

The only way to keep an even playing field is to create a new, box stock class. I would make a bet that those who complain now and feel they have to have the best rig available would still complain in a RTR class about having to comp against a superior box stock rig that they are getting beaten with. You can't make everyone happy, especially those who do not want to commit the time and effort to be good at it.

Agreed. We could easily set up a class like that and I imagine the same guys winning now are the ones who'd win that class too.

Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude

These are toys, and toys are for fun. If you're not having fun then you are taking it too seriously.

I couldn't have said it any better!


BTW, I just got back from a full day of fun running my comp rigs and scalers.....I had a BLAST driving all of them!

[Duuuuuuuude]

Originally Posted by JeremyH

Agreed. We could easily set up a class like that and I imagine the same guys winning now are the ones who'd win that class too.

And the same ones bitching would be bitching then too.

[BigSki]

Originally Posted by C*H*U*D

Tell me about it! I just had 3 more 4000mAh batteries and 100' of firehose show up yesterday

Ty is making me go broke though...

I'm afraid to ask what the fire hose is for....

I tried the 2.2 comp scene for a while. I had decent equipment so I couldn't fault the rig, it was me- I sucked at driving a comp rig. The next thing was when the MOA rigs starting showing up, I could see how much of an advantage they had because of their design, I just refused to spend more $$ to build another rig that I would suck at driving, so our club started a Sportsman class with the intention being that everyone could go through their spare parts boxes and slap together a 'junk yard dog' that would be fun class to run. It was fun for a few months before some club members wanted to use the grey area of the rules and just disable the dig on their comp rigs and run in the class- suddenly the fun was over again.

I started a scaler to run class 1, thinking it was a more realistic class but it seemed that class 2 was the most popular because a stock RTR Honcho fit into the class rules (with 'realistic' 39" tall tires tucked under the body ) so now I just take out the large scale Jeep and do my own thing. No rules to worry about, I can use my winch whenever I freeking feel like it and attach the hook to whatever I feel like hooking it to, I don't have to submerge it completely under water ( because every 1:1 has submarine capabilities ) to drive on a trail that I didn't want to drive on.

I actually enjoy taking the time to hand build my own parts, or modify existing parts to work for my application. Maybe I'm just a loner, but I'm having the most fun by not participating in any organized events, I just load up my junk, hike it into a State park, set up a video camera and just drive around with a few other friends.

[War Pig]

Originally Posted by BigSki

I'm afraid to ask what the fire hose is for....

I tried the 2.2 comp scene for a while. I had decent equipment so I couldn't fault the rig, it was me- I sucked at driving a comp rig. The next thing was when the MOA rigs starting showing up, I could see how much of an advantage they had because of their design, I just refused to spend more $$ to build another rig that I would suck at driving, so our club started a Sportsman class with the intention being that everyone could go through their spare parts boxes and slap together a 'junk yard dog' that would be fun class to run. It was fun for a few months before some club members wanted to use the grey area of the rules and just disable the dig on their comp rigs and run in the class- suddenly the fun was over again.

I started a scaler to run class 1, thinking it was a more realistic class but it seemed that class 2 was the most popular because a stock RTR Honcho fit into the class rules (with 'realistic' 39" tall tires tucked under the body ) so now I just take out the large scale Jeep and do my own thing. No rules to worry about, I can use my winch whenever I freeking feel like it and attach the hook to whatever I feel like hooking it to, I don't have to submerge it completely under water ( because every 1:1 has submarine capabilities ) to drive on a trail that I didn't want to drive on.

I actually enjoy taking the time to hand build my own parts, or modify existing parts to work for my application. Maybe I'm just a loner, but I'm having the most fun by not participating in any organized events, I just load up my junk, hike it into a State park, set up a video camera and just drive around with a few other friends.

That's what is great about scale rigs. Every one is different (for the most part) and you have the choice to build what you want and get together with friends or build to the scale rules and compete. I wish I had more time to go out and drive with my buddies, but with my family obligations that can be tough. That's why we have monthly competitions.....my wife knows that I'll be gone on at least one Sunday a month. It's on the calendar.

Scale is just alot more relaxed, interesting, varied, and fun.

[mtdriver]

Just like everyone else said. For me it came down to not enjoying being around the people who care about winning and nothing more. I started crawling back in 2004. I saw the Mud Cow online and said damn, I wanna build that. Showed my buddy, We bough Clodbusters for the axles and made the links, chassis, etc. There wasnt many of us and it was fun. We dilly dalied around with those until the AX10 came around. Same deal. Buy one, mod it, have some fun. We started using gates and all that nonsense. It was fun. Then dudes started running the Berg axles and kicked our asses. This made a lot of the racers in the area to finally take notice that the rigs could perform.

These racers are the same group of guys that hated monster truck racing. Then someone built a truggy and then what did they do, run truggy because it was a lot easier to drive then buggy. They dominated because they had the money. Thats why I quit racing monster truck and buggy, I didn't have the budget not to be last every race. Not too much fun.

These racers were the same guys who moved from buggy to racing 1/10 electric. So I stopped that too.

These racers were the same guys who moved onto short course from electrics. Didn't even go there. I kept with crawling.

These racers were the same guys who saw that crawling could be an easy win when they saw the point and shoot potential of a berg axled truck. I could drive, and did ok against these guys with my AX10. They brought along the whole pish posh of intense rules because they were the guys who complained for getting a point for reversing, or came in second because the judge liked that guy and didn't judge him the same as the winner.

Racers are overly competitive grown up babies who destroy everything. Thats why I run scalers and have reverted back to playing with toy trucks, not competing. I go out and bash my trucks and have fun. Not spend every last dime I have trying to be the best.

So far racers havnt ruined my fun because Im out of that loop and plan to keep it that way.

[johnnyh66]

I just got back from our scale comp (I took first in Class 3 ).
While we were out there I was thinking about this thread... Everyone was cheering, teasing, laughing and just non stop smiling. Scale events are just fun. We're running around in the woods, mud, creeks... getting dirty and playing with our toy trucks! Life doesn't get much better.


And as far as scalers not being comp worthy... these trucks are pretty damn tough and can surprise the hell out of you at times.

[666]

I have fun with both! It is what you make it.

I have seen drama in both aspects, I just blow it off anymore.

Got into it for the scaled down realism, and it's still there in different places.

My favorite class still is the Super class.

[johnnyh66]

Originally Posted by 666

Got into it for the scaled down realism, and it's still there in different places.

I love my 1.9 Dinky MRC for it's scale looks. I'm going to add a driver, lights and maybe a 3d motor. It's out of spec but it performs pretty good... but, even if it was within spec, I don't think I'd be winning any 1.9 comps with it.

[madkawi650]

Originally Posted by Kraqa

I'm not "begrudge" anyone. I'm even building a scale rig. I was just curious what has caused the huge influx in scale rig.

Scale rigs don't cost a bloody fortune to have fun with.. A $300 RTR or a $1000 scaler are not far off each other on the trail. Looks, yeah, but in climbing that muddy rock they both spin and fling dirt.
Crawlers have gone stupid $$$ to keep up with the crowd.. In the days of the AX-10 everyone could have fun, but now unless you drop 2 grand on a custom moon buggy with another $300 for some crazy 80* angle axles and run tiny 200mah 6s lipos on a $500 ESC all controlled by a $500 25 channel super brain RX, your just the stupid noob... That's why I switched.. Scale fellas are less competitive and seem to be more about fun.


Sent from my highly abused iPhone using Tapatalk

[War Pig]

Originally Posted by johnnyh66

I love my 1.9 Dinky MRC for it's scale looks. I'm going to add a driver, lights and maybe a 3d motor. It's out of spec but it performs pretty good... but, even if it was within spec, I don't think I'd be winning any 1.9 comps with it.

I love that you have Pitbulls on it. Cool rig.