1.9 Barrage RTR 1/10 Crawler

[David Wile]

Originally Posted by VWJOBO

No, just picked up some 2200 lips also but they look like they will push the ESC to it's limit on Amps. The 900mAh are great little batteries but have an event this weekend and wanted some more life for the event. Hopefully the ESC can handle a little extra. The batteries were a good deal of the work good. Tenergy 2200 lips 2cell, 3 for like 37 bucks, just need to change connectors on them. Not a big deal.

The servo crapped out on the first run with it. Stick in a Traxxas one. Made some spacers for behind it so it does not hit shocks, and it works good.

Hey Jobo,

There should not be any difference between a 900 and a 2200 mAh battery as far as the ESC is concerned. I think the only thing that will tax the ESC is if you go from a 2S battery to a 3S battery. Maybe I am not understanding something here?

I did not use spacers on my new servo because I did not have long screws or bolts. Can you tell me what size screws or bolts I should buy to use spacers?

Best wishes,
Dave Wile

[VWJOBO]

Originally Posted by David Wile

Hey Jobo,

There should not be any difference between a 900 and a 2200 mAh battery as far as the ESC is concerned. I think the only thing that will tax the ESC is if you go from a 2S battery to a 3S battery. Maybe I am not understanding something here?

I did not use spacers on my new servo because I did not have long screws or bolts. Can you tell me what size screws or bolts I should buy to use spacers?

Best wishes,
Dave Wile

The screws are 3X16mm. The soccer is 3/8 deep (servo mount to chassis) x 1/4 inch wide.

On the battery issue the lipo batteries have a continuous discharge of 70amps. The ECS is rated for 60. NIMH batteries don't have that much power behind them so the amps are not an issue with NIMH batteries.

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[David Wile]

Originally Posted by VWJOBO

The screws are 3X16mm. The soccer is 3/8 deep (servo mount to chassis) x 1/4 inch wide.

On the battery issue the lipo batteries have a continuous discharge of 70amps. The ECS is rated for 60. NIMH batteries don't have that much power behind them so the amps are not an issue with NIMH batteries.

Hey Jobo,

Thanks for the good advice on the screws, and I will give them a try.

I had no idea about the difference between LiPo and NiMH batteries. I have been using the 2200 mAh batteries since last December without anything getting hot or showing any sign of a problem. However, all my Barrage running is actually slow crawling over rocks in my rock garden. I would suspect if one is running it fast, that would heat things up more.

I can assure you my crawling with my 2200 LiPo batteries has been all good. I put a battery in it, run for a while, turn the switch off, and let the battery stay in until I want to run it again. I can run one of those batteries for several hours that way before needing to recharge it.

Best wishes,
Dave Wile

[Peterv]

Your motor will never draw that much amperage from the ESC. The only way to kill the motor is with a 3S battery. Motor is made to run on 2s and nothing more. Even if the wheels are bound the clutch will slip saving the ESC from an overload. I run my Barrage with 1500 to 5000 2S LiPO batteries. Had to raise the body to accept the 5000 2 S as it had to go on edge to fit.

Pete

[honchojoe]

Originally Posted by David Wile

Hey Jobo,

Thanks for the good advice on the screws, and I will give them a try.

I had no idea about the difference between LiPo and NiMH batteries. I have been using the 2200 mAh batteries since last December without anything getting hot or showing any sign of a problem. However, all my Barrage running is actually slow crawling over rocks in my rock garden. I would suspect if one is running it fast, that would heat things up more.

I can assure you my crawling with my 2200 LiPo batteries has been all good. I put a battery in it, run for a while, turn the switch off, and let the battery stay in until I want to run it again. I can run one of those batteries for several hours that way before needing to recharge it.

Best wishes,
Dave Wile

Have you set your esc to lipo mode? Also you should unplug your battery even though the switch is off.

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[David Wile]

Originally Posted by Peterv

Your motor will never draw that much amperage from the ESC. The only way to kill the motor is with a 3S battery. Motor is made to run on 2s and nothing more. Even if the wheels are bound the clutch will slip saving the ESC from an overload. I run my Barrage with 1500 to 5000 2S LiPO batteries. Had to raise the body to accept the 5000 2 S as it had to go on edge to fit.

Pete

Originally Posted by honchojoe

Have you set your esc to lipo mode? Also you should unplug your battery even though the switch is off.

Hey Joe,

Yes, I did change my ESC setting for LiPo instead of NiMH batteries. I do not know what the difference is in the settings, but I did it because the manual said to do it.

The manual also said to unplug the battery when not in use, and I was doing that for some time. Then Pete did some checking and found there was no current from the battery when it was switched off. Pulling the body to unplug was a pain in the neck, so I started keeping it plugged in and switched off when not in use. It has to be more than six months now, and the 2200 mAh battery will run for hours at crawl speed even though it is still plugged into the ESC.

In his post above, Pete seems to say one does not need to worry about the mAh size of the battery, but rather the number of battery cells (2S vs 3S). I do not understand the details of all that, but I always was under the impression that battery size (mAh) was not a risk to the electronic system. While neither trained nor experienced in electronics, I can understand how a 3S battery can harm the ESC or motor in a 2S system.

I once had a Farmall H tractor with a 6 volt system which was notorious for the starter turning the engine too slowly to start easily. When having the starter rewound, the service man suggested I switch my battery and lights to 12 volt while keeping the starter 6 volts. He said the 12 volt battery would spin the starter much faster and would start the engine much easier. I was skeptical about harming the starter I just had fixed, and he told me to simply not hold the starter button down for more than a few seconds at a time, and that would keep the starter from overheating.

He was absolutely correct. I changed to 12 volts, and the starter made that engine spin like a top. From that time on, it always started very quickly, and I never had the starter go bad again.

Pete says he runs a 5000 mAh in his Barrage, and that amazes me. If I put a 5000 mAh battery in mine, it would probably last me for a month the way I use mine. I am sure he uses his much more than I, however.

Best wishes,
Dave Wile

[bob_suruncle]

Originally Posted by hillbillyrc

Had to search the doomsday.

Noticed I few things beside what bob said
It's actually 4 linked and the motor pinion size is 22t instead of 16t wonder how it will run being the same size motor.

New model is actually a 390 motor and they have gone with a full size servo with a metal servo tray so no more flexing when turning... that upgrade is going on my V1 chassis

There was a live feed on the horizon FB page going over all the updates:

https://www.facebook.com/HorizonHobb...5117131883935/

[Peterv]

Sweet truck Bob!
Yes, I checked with my watt meter and 0 current draw with the switch in the off position. Leave my battery plugged in at all times with no ill results. Yes, the 5000 ma a battery is good for weeks or 30 minute runs several times a week. Really would like info on the new servo mount and how to buy. Hopefully Horizon will have it for sale as a replacement part.

Pete

[bob_suruncle]

Oh... and an update: The Barrota is up and running! some minor details to add but all cosmetic including gluing the front side marker lenses back in but electronics are buttoned up so now to test on the store's rock garden!





I actually found a Redcat servo mount that I drilled 2 holes in (one already lined up) and mounted on the axle in place of the plastic one that came on my barrage. redcat part number is 18010. The hole on the back edge is in the right spot.... just need to drill and countersink two holes on the front edge to mount on the axle.



Alsternately you can use the new Barrage V2 servo mount which should bolt right on with no mods. Part # is ECX221000

https://www.horizonhobby.com/servo-m...it-p-ecx221000



......... by the way, the all metal Redcat Everest 1/10 scale drive shafts will work in the barrage too if you cut them down about 1/2"

[crashlot2]

Originally Posted by David Wile

Hey Jobo,

There should not be any difference between a 900 and a 2200 mAh battery as far as the ESC is concerned. I think the only thing that will tax the ESC is if you go from a 2S battery to a 3S battery. Maybe I am not understanding something here?

I did not use spacers on my new servo because I did not have long screws or bolts. Can you tell me what size screws or bolts I should buy to use spacers?

Best wishes,
Dave Wile

The mAH is like a cars gas tank . the higher the mAH the larger the tank.

[Peterv]

Well put crashlot2! You go further not faster with a larger ma battery. Now a higher C rating a different story. However you will not exceed your ESCs current rating with a larger battery.

Pete

[David Wile]

Originally Posted by Peterv

Well put crashlot2! You go further not faster with a larger ma battery. Now a higher C rating a different story. However you will not exceed your ESCs current rating with a larger battery.

Pete

Hey Pete,

Assuming the same cell number and mAh size batteries, what is the difference in C rating? I seem to remember a higher C rating means the battery can discharge and be recharged faster, but what does that mean as far as the ESC current rating?

Best wishes,
Dave Wile

[Peterv]

C rating is the amount of current at one time that the battery can produce. A 1000 ma battery which is 30C can instantaneously put out 30 amp. That is if the motor would demand that. Nothing to do with the ESC. I use 30 to 70C batteries. Higher C generally gives better performance and speed through the battery's discharge cycle.
Yes, some can be charged at a higher rate.

Pete

[David Wile]

Originally Posted by Peterv

C rating is the amount of current at one time that the battery can produce. A 1000 ma battery which is 30C can instantaneously put out 30 amp. That is if the motor would demand that. Nothing to do with the ESC. I use 30 to 70C batteries. Higher C generally gives better performance and speed through the battery's discharge cycle. Yes, some can be charged at a higher rate.
Pete

Hey Pete,

My crawling and my flying are both rather tame, and I do not do things like increase battery voltage to make them go faster. I keep my stuff running stock - other than switching from the 900 mAh NiMH battery to a 2200 mAh LiPo in my Barrage. I also charge all my batteries at a 1C rate rather than a higher rate.

Considering the way I use my Barrage, is there anything bad about using the 2200 2S battery in my Barrage? It really does run for hours at my crawling speed.

Time is starting to have an effect on my common sense finally. I am not as keen to buy one of the new Barrage kits now. I suspect by the time they arrive, I will be over it.

Best wishes,
Dave Wile

[Sneetches]

Originally Posted by David Wile

Considering the way I use my Barrage, is there anything bad about using the 2200 2S battery in my Barrage? It really does run for hours at my crawling speed.


Best wishes,
Dave Wile

No, you could stuff a 10000 mAh 2S and it wouldn't do anything except weigh you down. Battery choice is pretty much satisfying the demand of your motor first and then going with the capacity you prefer after that. Some guys run small batteries for comps or weight balance, some run the biggest possible for longer run times.

[bob_suruncle]

Took the Hilux bodied Barrage out for a trail run over the weekend and it did not perform well. The new body is very heavy and as a result the stock springs are simply not strong enough to be effective. Any sort of off camber the the truck would just roll over and when it flexed it would not return to level. I will try some heavier springs or different shocks with some adjustability and hopefully this will resolve the issue as the new body has definitely had a negative impact.

[Devwon]

Are you running the stock shock oil? 40w took care of a lot of that for me. Heavier springs are next and may try 60w the next time I service them.

[bob_suruncle]

Originally Posted by Devwon

Are you running the stock shock oil? 40w took care of a lot of that for me. Heavier springs are next and may try 60w the next time I service them.

Yes stock oil. I will try your suggestion

[220shaun]

Hey bob pickup the hot Racing assorted 3mm spacer kit, you'll be able to space out the front and lower links to get that rear wheel base corrected and better the angle on the Driveshaft. Also to let everyone know the Redcat Full Metal Lockers (part #7075 I believe) drop in no issue. Also installed the Spectrum S6230 Servo and fits great same dimensions as the stock one, you will have to get a different Servo horn though. Losi MRC Spur Gears and center trans/diff Gears fit dimension-wise but will not bolt up without modifications. The traxxas e-revo pinion gear for overdrive mod will also not work with the stock or Redcat front lockers, gears are different pitch and will not mesh. Hot Racing Steel CV Center Driveshafts will also work once you space the upper links for a better angle on the pumpkin. and yes 380 sized motors will not fit without modification to the motor plate, needs to be rotated out to clear frame rails/chassis plate/trans cover. Also Tamiya Subaru Brat hard plastic and lexan body 248mm wheelbase will fit and there's a list of CC01 bodies with 242mm wheelbase that's pretty close. You could trim your links to get perfect wheelbase. The Tamiya CC01 Isuzu Mu and Mitsubishi Pajero are pretty cool looking. Also for the Scale guys the hard plastic brat body does have half interior.

[honchojoe]

I bought the cc01 pajero. I'm thinking it will end up on a barrage eventually. The cc01 chassis will be too limited.

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