2014 scale rules discussion or question thead

[Scrap]

Should there be more difference in performance between class 1 and class 2?

I use a basically stock Dingo in Class 1. It has the XR10 mod, CMS, 4-linked rear, relocated battery, Flashpoint tyres and a bunch of scale this and that. Well kinda stock anyway.

It does pretty well against class 2 rigs. It wipes the floor with the CC10, trailfinder, gelande and so forth. Basically with all the platforms that are made for class 1. It does lose a bit on scale points but I'm going to make metal bumpers and sliders for it to rectify that.

Now the question in this: Is this the direction class 1 should be going? There have been discussions about a class 0, but I don't see the need for more classes. Just that class 1 should be made more scale oriented and less performance. You can do this by course design but I for one am not very interested in driving over flat ground with an off road vehicle. Maybe the rules could be changed to force the too good performing cars to another class? Or maybe make a hardbody required in class 1? Does the rules committee have any ideas?

Yes I could just drive it in class 2 but it is a class 1 legal rig. I'll probably use it in both classes just because I like the challenge of the shorter WB against Honchos and such.

[doublej]

Here our Class1 rigs don't stand as much of a chance on class2 courses.
Some of it is course design, but Class1 doesn't drive "flat land". The bumpers, wheel coverage, and normally a lot more top heavy all play a big effect on what lines you can take.

[War Pig]

Originally Posted by Scrap

Should there be more difference in performance between class 1 and class 2?

I use a basically stock Dingo in Class 1. It has the XR10 mod, CMS, 4-linked rear, relocated battery, Flashpoint tyres and a bunch of scale this and that. Well kinda stock anyway.

It does pretty well against class 2 rigs. It wipes the floor with the CC10, trailfinder, gelande and so forth. Basically with all the platforms that are made for class 1. It does lose a bit on scale points but I'm going to make metal bumpers and sliders for it to rectify that.

Now the question in this: Is this the direction class 1 should be going? There have been discussions about a class 0, but I don't see the need for more classes. Just that class 1 should be made more scale oriented and less performance. You can do this by course design but I for one am not very interested in driving over flat ground with an off road vehicle. Maybe the rules could be changed to force the too good performing cars to another class? Or maybe make a hardbody required in class 1? Does the rules committee have any ideas?

Yes I could just drive it in class 2 but it is a class 1 legal rig. I'll probably use it in both classes just because I like the challenge of the shorter WB against Honchos and such.

I would guess that your Class 1 rig scale points out at 25-30 points? A maxed out Class 1 rig will have about 30 more points on 2 courses. That is the equalizer. I'm pretty sure it would be impossible to get a lexan bodied rig to 60 points in C1. Around here the Class 1 courses are much easier than Class 2.....it's just a more relaxed class and people know and enjoy that. We usually make them really long and throw in a couple tough gates on each course to keep people honest, but it's known that if you want to be challenged, bump up to Class 2. I promise you that you'd get your ass handed to you if you tried to run that rig in C2 here in the PNW.

[angeloko]

Originally Posted by War Pig

All the listed tub chassis are legal in all classes as long as the vehicles follow all class rules. Just build cool rigs that look scale and everything will be fine!

I know this was written earlier this year and I haven´t read the hole thread but it´s very important for me to know if my 1.9 wraith ( wraith cage/skid with scx10 axle and 1.9 tire with dingo body on) is Class 2 legal? thanks in advance

[doublej]

A wraith is a plastic tuber, only legal in class3. You would have to mount the cage work on a frame like an scx10 for class2

[angeloko]

Originally Posted by doublej

A wraith is a plastic tuber, only legal in class3. You would have to mount the cage work on a frame like an scx10 for class2

that´s what I thought. So in that case (with rails) I would get -1 for the cage, right?

[Scrap]

Don't hold your breath waiting for the answer to that cage question. I asked about a month ago do you get -1 or -2 for the stock Dingo cage. You get cage points without interior and the Dingo cage could cover two rows of seats. So you could basically get -2 for it.

You could probably argue that the wraith cage has a tube bed. And maybe the outermost tubes on the sides could be considered sliders. The front bumper will get you -2 (plastic with stinger).

Now to my question this time.

Are there going to be rule changes for 2015 that affect building your truck?

[doublej]

I'll look at the scale points when I get to work.
But that's a broad question... what exactly are you looking to build?

[angeloko]

Originally Posted by Scrap

Don't hold your breath waiting for the answer to that cage question. I asked about a month ago do you get -1 or -2 for the stock Dingo cage. You get cage points without interior and the Dingo cage could cover two rows of seats. So you could basically get -2 for it.

You could probably argue that the wraith cage has a tube bed. And maybe the outermost tubes on the sides could be considered sliders. The front bumper will get you -2 (plastic with stinger).

Now to my question this time.

Are there going to be rule changes for 2015 that affect building your truck?

I dont think a Dingo cage applies for points because the cage doesn´t have a cross bar behind the seats. Different with the Wraith cage that it does. If points are awarded for ´´handicap´´ how a full wraith cage with a lexan body, compare to a bare lexan body in terms of weight and structural matters?

[doublej]

Originally Posted by angeloko

that´s what I thought. So in that case (with rails) I would get -1 for the cage, right?

See below.

Originally Posted by Scrap

Don't hold your breath waiting for the answer to that cage question. I asked about a month ago do you get -1 or -2 for the stock Dingo cage. You get cage points without interior and the Dingo cage could cover two rows of seats. So you could basically get -2 for it.
No reason to get mad - things fall through all the time around here.
Dingo only has 1 row of seats unless your changing the interior piece somehow.
You could probably argue that the wraith cage has a tube bed. And maybe the outermost tubes on the sides could be considered sliders. The front bumper will get you -2 (plastic with stinger).
I would agree, but it depends on what body you put on it really.

Originally Posted by angeloko

I dont think a Dingo cage applies for points because the cage doesn´t have a cross bar behind the seats. Different with the Wraith cage that it does. If points are awarded for ´´handicap´´ how a full wraith cage with a lexan body, compare to a bare lexan body in terms of weight and structural matters?

Wrong Sir, all axial cages are fully legal. I use to say the same thing, but it comes down to how a 1:1 guy reads the rules vs an RC guy.
There are crossbars in the roof, so all is good.

And to your handicap question - Again what do you mean?
Each of the scale points are there to promote building and handicap things. Like adding weight (hardbody, metal cage vs plastic) or hinder performance (CMS, heavy bumper). And the list goes on.....
A wraith will have more top weight than just a plain lexan body, the wraith also will not give when you push into a rock like a lexan body.

Hope that answers things - if not, hit me again.

[angeloko]

[QUOTE=doublej;4916407]See below.





Wrong Sir, all axial cages are fully legal. I use to say the same thing, but it comes down to how a 1:1 guy reads the rules vs an RC guy.
There are crossbars in the roof, so all is good.

And to your handicap question - Again what do you mean?
Each of the scale points are there to promote building and handicap things. Like adding weight (hardbody, metal cage vs plastic) or hinder performance (CMS, heavy bumper). And the list goes on.....
A wraith will have more top weight than just a plain lexan body, the wraith also will not give when you push into a rock like a lexan body.

Hope that answers things - if not, hit me again.[/QUOTE

. English is not my first language, I'll try my best.
So my question is: does a rail chasis with wraith cage, scx10 axle and 1.9 tires (class II) gets -1 point for his roll cage?
I think at least it should get 1. And in my opinion it should get another -1 for having a full cage front to back, side to side. (for the same reasons you mentioned before)

[doublej]

1 point for the single row of cage work, and could be called a tube bed depending on what body you use. So another 1 point for that if so.
The stock wraith bumper is 2 points, 1 for the bumper and 1 for the stinger.

Then interior and whatever scale extras you add.

That help?

[Noll11]

wanted to check on the legality of my SCEXO. I'm pretty sure it's C3 legal as is (will be adding an interior), but wanted to check. On a similar note, with the addition of a bumper wider than the chassis rail, would it fit c2? I don't see any mention of the vehicle having to be based off any specific vehicle, and it does have full length chassis rails - I'm probably wrong here, but wanted to confirm one way or another.

anyway, here it is:

[doublej]

Is the widest part of the body at the doors as wide as the inside to inside of front tire mesurment?
Is the chassis 3in longer than the wheel base?

[Noll11]

Just checked, the answer is yes to both questions . Wheels stick about 1/2 way out past the chassis.

[doublej]

Then as long as your tire height and skid to roof height meet class2 requirements - your class2 legal.
It might be a face only a mother would love, and not what class2 was intended for - but legal is legal.

Drive it like you stole it!

[Noll11]

Awesome, thanks! It's nice to have the option to do c2 or 3 . I'll check on the skid to roof height tomorrow, but pretty sure it's fine.

It's quite a riot to drive - 13.5t bl on 3s. Seem to be averaging one stripped idler a day at the moment haha.

[Hoosierdady]

Just curious, but why set the Class 1 max tire size 1mm under a stock set of Flat irons? I've got a few guys running a comp locally who are just starting out in the hobby and it has been brought to light a few times that they have to buy new tires just to get rid of 1mm so they can run class 1.

[boob dude]

Originally Posted by Hoosierdady

Just curious, but why set the Class 1 max tire size 1mm under a stock set of Flat irons? I've got a few guys running a comp locally who are just starting out in the hobby and it has been brought to light a few times that they have to buy new tires just to get rid of 1mm so they can run class 1.

We let the sportsman drivers run flat irons in Utah, but when you go up to pro the rules are the rules. I don't see the rule on the class 1 tire size changing anytime soon.

[TURTLE]

That rule was actually created to specifically keep the flatiron out of class 1. Not because it was an amazing tire, but because it was felt that stock vehicles like the Dingo were drop in vehicles for Class 2. This also made class 1 more elite, and tried to aim it more at being a builders class.

With all the manufactures now supporting this rule creating "4.19"" tires this rule will not be changing. Flip flopping on rules causes manufactures to loose trust in the rules they are creating products for and ends up being bad for all of us.

With that said there is no reason a JK, Dingo or Honcho can not be very competitive in class 2. So there is really no reason to be in class 1. However if the desire to compete in class 1 with a vehicle like this is strong tires will be one of the cheapest items people will be buying for their crawlers.